February

[00:19] #knownspace> SeanLap: kicked out of bed
[00:21] #knownspace> SeanLap: time to break out the kindle and keep reading about john grimes. got on a bertram chandler kick
[00:22] #knownspace> SeanLap: this is liberty hall, you can spit on the matt and call the cat a bastard.
[00:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: cat bastard
[07:01] jonmanyjars has joined #knownspace
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[08:45] jonmanyjars has joined #knownspace
[10:13] #knownspace> SeanLap: time to go home.
[11:45] jonmanyjars has joined #knownspace
[12:04] Akiraa has joined #knownspace
[12:53] Lensman has joined #knownspace
[12:55] #knownspace> Lensman_free: Aha, I see you jonmanyjars! Where is the new template for Known Space Concordace pages, hmmm? Time's a-wastin'!
[12:55] #knownspace> Lensman_free: Nudge.
[13:14] NickE has joined #knownspace
[13:16] #knownspace> NickE: 'sup ppl
[13:18] #knownspace> NickE: laptop needs a reboot. Back in a bit
[13:20] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: hahahaha
[13:20] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: i haven't had a chance to play with that yet
[13:20] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: i'll try to do it tonight
[13:21] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: as nicke will relate to (i bet) i was using expanding foam to replace the rotten wood on my front porch... every 4 years or so, i scrape it all out and sort of refoam it and reclad it.
[13:21] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: one day i'll have to fix it properly
[13:28] #knownspace> SeanS: just watched 'rebirth of mothra' more than anything it looked like it was a japanes kids morning show and they spliced all the eps together to make a 'movie'
[13:29] NickE has joined #knownspace
[13:30] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather 40601
[13:30] #knownspace> Outsider: Cover Unknown, 1?, ?mb, Light air 3kt (?) - KLOU 18:26Z
[13:30] #knownspace> SeanS: well, that was informative
[13:30] #knownspace> NickE: snowing here
[13:31] #knownspace> SeanS: dreary as hell here... rainy foggy nasty. i feel like i am in england
[13:31] #knownspace> NickE: bloody cold here last few days, snowing now
[13:32] #knownspace> NickE: hit -11C around here Thursday night
[13:32] #knownspace> SeanS: i need to get cleaned up and get in a geeky mood for chat
[13:32] #knownspace> SeanS: maybe put on my Thundercats T-shirt
[13:33] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: it's alternating snow and freezing rain here
[13:33] #knownspace> NickE: (laptop slow and may need another reboot, so may drop off now and then)
[13:33] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: kind of all day, frozen drizzle
[13:33] #knownspace> NickE: hi Sean, Mark
[13:33] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: but it's suppose to smash into Nick and miss us
[13:33] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: mostly
[13:33] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[13:33] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: my heating can't really keep this house warm in these conditions
[13:34] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: it can keep it from getting really cold...
[13:34] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: hi nick
[13:34] #knownspace> NickE: most of day OK, but started snowing about 2pm
[13:34] #knownspace> NickE: our house can't quite cut it either (is old and draghty)
[13:34] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: my car isn't very good on ice, but one of my tires is illegal
[13:35] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: same here. if the coal fires were still in it it would be toasty i bet
[13:35] #knownspace> NickE: living room OK, but only with fire on, central heating alone not good enough
[13:36] #knownspace> Lensman: I have a suggestion for chat topic today: How would you go about designing the "rescue switch" for Kzanol's spacesuit?
[13:36] #knownspace> NickE: hope our new chooks survive the night!
[13:36] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: chooks?
[13:36] #knownspace> NickE: Chickens
[13:36] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: ah.
[13:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Just a simple button projecting to the outside of the stasis field won't work, because if part of the button is inside the field, the button can't be moved.
[13:36] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: bring themi the house with you
[13:37] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: :-)
[13:37] #knownspace> NickE: we're rural... but there is a limit :-)
[13:37] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: i have to clean this place up before my wife gets home. back in about 1.5 hours
[13:37] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: hehehehe.
[13:37] #knownspace> NickE: K
[13:38] #knownspace> NickE: Lens, I seem to recall this question coming up many years back on the list
[13:38] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: .weather KGCC
[13:38] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ¤, 28.4? (-2?), 30.40in (1026mb), Moderate breeze 12kt (?) - KCPR 17:53Z
[13:38] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: !weather KGCC
[13:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Nick: That's entirely possible, I wasn't on the list for that many years.
[13:38] #knownspace> HAL9000: Weather info for Gillette, Wyoming (updated on 10:53 AM MST on February 04, 2012) -- Temperature: 35 F / 2 C -- Windchill: 29 F / -2 C -- Humidity: 61% -- Dew Point: 23 F / -5 C -- Wind: SW at 8 mph / 13 km/h -- Pressure: 30.53 in / 1034 hPa (Falling) -- Conditions: Clear -- Visibility: 10.0 miles / 16.1 kilometers -- UV: 3 out of 16 -- Clouds: Clear (CLR) : - -- Yesterday's Maximum: 36 F / 2 C --
[13:38] #knownspace> HAL9000: Yesterday's Minimum: 10 F / -12 C approx. -- Yesterday's Heating Degree Days: 41 approx. -- Sunrise: 7:17 AM MST -- Sunset: 5:15 PM MST -- Moon Rise: 2:10 PM MST -- Moon Set: 4:49 AM MST -- Moon Phase: Waxing Gibbous
[13:38] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: heh wrong weather station
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[13:40] #knownspace> NickE: as remember, what you probably need is the button being a stasis field generator with a very short internal timer and a low stasis quantum effect so that it surrounds the suit in a second filed, thus collapsing it and then switching itself off in a matter of seconds
[13:41] senax has joined #knownspace
[13:41] #knownspace> NickE: as described though. it sounds as though it did originally project through - but we kno that this could not work - unless theer is some kind of odd quantum tunneling effect that the button could induce
[13:42] #knownspace> senax: Hi everyone.
[13:42] #knownspace> NickE: hi
[13:42] #knownspace> NickE: be
[13:42] #knownspace> NickE: brb - food ready
[13:49] Hippy has joined #knownspace
[13:50] #knownspace> Hippy: MOrning, everyone
[13:50] #knownspace> Hippy: . . .as the case may be
[13:50] #knownspace> senax: Hi
[13:51] #knownspace> Hippy: So, how is everyone's local weather? Hot as hell over here and the sun isn't even up yet
[13:53] #knownspace> senax: Got about 5" snow overnight here (omaha, NE). Expecting another 5" before it ends this evening.
[13:54] #knownspace> senax: We've had a very mild winter so far, but the groundhog is having the last laugh.
[13:55] #knownspace> SeanS: looks like i am in england.. dreary drizzly and generally the kind of weather that promotes seasonal depression
[13:55] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh! I thougtht you lived in Europe for some reason
[13:55] #knownspace> SeanS: nope kentucky
[13:56] #knownspace> Hippy: No, I menat xenax
[13:56] #knownspace> SeanS: gotcha
[13:56] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather 40601
[13:56] #knownspace> Hippy: I knw you're in Kentucky
[13:56] #knownspace> Outsider: Overcast ?, 46.4? (8?), 30.07in (1015mb), Mist, Light breeze 4kt (?) - KLOU, 18:36Z
[13:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes, and I joined up for LibertyCon the other week
[13:56] #knownspace> SeanS: and since senax is in nebraska, he will send all his weather to me
[13:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Probably should think about booking a room there, too
[13:57] #knownspace> SeanS: i will do it in about a week or so
[13:57] #knownspace> Hippy: I should've booked the flights, too, because I missed out on some really cheap ones. Ah, well
[13:58] #knownspace> SeanS: just a medium drive for me
[13:59] #knownspace> senax: Sounds like a pretty good con.
[13:59] #knownspace> Hippy: I looked up the route on Google and from Orlando it's a decent drive. I only wish I could drive, though
[13:59] #knownspace> Hippy: And to fly there from Orlando is weird. Orlando to Charlotte NC and then back to Chattanooga
[13:59] #knownspace> senax: Seems like the cons I've been to lately are increasingly media focused...and less about SF than they used to be.
[14:00] #knownspace> SeanS: mapquest says 305 miles... all on interstate
[14:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Amen to that, xenaz
[14:01] #knownspace> Hippy: The Reno WorldCon was sort of like that, or so it seemed to me. But there's less SF being published now so that's not surprising
[14:01] Jim has joined #knownspace
[14:01] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Jim
[14:01] #knownspace> SeanS: dan is going to liberty again this year
[14:01] #knownspace> Jim: hello all
[14:01] #knownspace> SeanS: hey jim
[14:01] #knownspace> senax: Hi Jim
[14:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, excellent
[14:02] #knownspace> SeanS: brb, going to get cleaned up
[14:04] #knownspace> Hippy: Egad, what a Saturday oou must have had
[14:05] #knownspace> Hippy: So, how is the weather in West Virginia, Jim? That's been the topic of conversation so far :)
[14:05] #knownspace> Hippy: Although xenax made a good point about SF cons being more media focussed
[14:05] #knownspace> Jim: we are going to get about 2 cm of snow this afternoon and evening
[14:06] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, snow. . . It hasnt' snowed here in ten years, apparently (Ballarat, that is)
[14:10] #knownspace> senax: Record high of 69F/21C Tuesday, 4 days later almost a foot of snow. :-)
[14:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Holy crap. The climate did change! :)
[14:12] #knownspace> senax: I don't miss being a weather forecaster. Programming is more my style. At least the computers _try_ to do what you want.
[14:12] #knownspace> Jim: The normal weather in West Virginia is so variable that we could not detect a climate change if it knocked us in the head.
[14:12] #knownspace> Jim: Computers are fun.
[14:13] #knownspace> SeanS: same thing here Jim. we say if you don't like the weather in Ky, wait around for a few hours.
[14:15] #knownspace> Hippy: That's a Melbourne expression, too
[14:16] #knownspace> NickE: back. Getting on for an inch of snow now in last couple of hours. not a lot but first noticeable fall since last winter for us
[14:18] #knownspace> SeanS: no snow accumulation to speak of here. got .25 of an inch on the grass but nothing stuck to the roads so that doesnt count.
[14:19] #knownspace> senax: Snow can be tricky. I once left work at the weather station in the evening, telling the next shift it should start in about 8 hours. An hour later I was visiting some friends, and we looked out the window to see it coming down pretty heavy. I took a lot of ridicule over that one.
[14:20] #knownspace> Hippy: All this talk of snow. . . So far we are getting a very slight cooling breeze here
[14:25] #knownspace> NickE: well you have the southern hemisphere advantage right now :-)
[14:26] #knownspace> Hippy: I don't know about adbantage. I'd kill for a cold wind at the moment
[14:26] #knownspace> Hippy: Of course, the hot nights have the advantage of seeing more people out on the streets at three in the morning
[14:28] #knownspace> NickE: is that good? :-)
[14:32] #knownspace> SeanS: I am in my 40's now. The only way I am up at 3am is if that asshole Mr Insomnia is visiting or I have taken an early nap and have drug the telescope out.
[14:32] #knownspace> Hippy: Not this morning. I was woken up by some bloke nattering away on his phone. Who the hell was he taliing to at quarter to four in the morning?
[14:33] #knownspace> Hippy: I am nearly 50 and find that sleep is getting harder to come by (although the heat has something to do with it)
[14:33] #knownspace> NickE: @Sean, yeah that sounds about right :-)
[14:34] #knownspace> NickE: well, maybe not the telescope this time of year :-)
[14:34] #knownspace> senax: I'm a night person. I have a hard time going to bed much earlier than midnight, but I have to be up by 6 on weekdays. That means I have to spend weekends catching up on my sleep deficit.
[14:35] #knownspace> SeanS: my scope guy took the 9.25 inch schmidt-cass back and left me a 6 inch refractor.
[14:35] #knownspace> Hippy: The dastard!
[14:36] #knownspace> SeanS: i am sure it will come back in a year or so. he doesnt use these scopes anymore because he got a 16 inch dobsonian
[14:44] #knownspace> Hippy: So what's the seeing like in Frankfort?
[14:45] #knownspace> SeanS: I am in the county but fairly close to town. Its not bad. come this spring I am going to get gary to load up the big one and go to a friends where it is so dark you can not see your hand in front of your face. only about a 10-15 minute drive.
[14:46] #knownspace> Hippy: Sounds like the Jellison ranch in 'Lucifers Hammer'
[14:48] #knownspace> SeanS: pretty much
[14:48] #knownspace> SeanS: not nearly as big but they have a a couple of big fields for yards.
[14:49] #knownspace> SeanS: so no close trees to interfere
[14:49] #knownspace> Hippy: So what do you mainly look at?
[14:50] #knownspace> SeanS: planets and Messier objects.
[14:50] #knownspace> Hippy: So can you see Uranus?
[14:50] #knownspace> Hippy: (Somebody had to say it.)
[14:50] #knownspace> SeanS: i have not been able to find it but that one is dang tough.
[14:51] #knownspace> Lensman_free: Let's not get into what "black hole" means in Russian.
[14:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Da svadanya, Lens
[14:51] #knownspace> Hippy: . . .or however you spell it
[14:51] Dan has joined #knownspace
[14:52] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Dan
[14:52] #knownspace> Lensman_free: Ya ne govoryú po-rússki.
[14:52] #knownspace> SeanS: i have not tried out the refractor yet (been cloudy a lot) but with the schmidt you could see jupiter and would have to pan around to see all the gallilean moons
[14:52] #knownspace> SeanS: hi dan
[14:53] #knownspace> NickE: hi Dan
[14:53] #knownspace> Lensman: hi Dan
[14:53] #knownspace> Dan: Hiya!
[14:56] #knownspace> SeanS: so dan, have you finished designing the steam powered turbo laser emplacement yet?
[14:57] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, the wind at last!
[14:58] #knownspace> Dan: Not yet, although I finished the holster for my wife's ray gun this morning. Now to get started on the Bracers & the steam guns I want to mount on them. :)
[14:59] #knownspace> Lensman: Got pix of the guns?
[15:00] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, the ones with the most notes are on my Facebook. But the easiest to link to are on my Flickr page.
[15:00] #knownspace> Dan: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vilaresthal/
[15:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, that's Web ubiquity
[15:01] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't have a FB account, so don't know if I can look at your page or not.
[15:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Thanks for the Flickr link.
[15:01] #knownspace> Dan: You're welcome!
[15:02] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Greets
[15:02] #knownspace> Jim: fred
[15:03] #knownspace> Lensman: "Winchester & Tesla". Kewl!
[15:03] #knownspace> Lensman: I love it.
[15:04] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Fred
[15:04] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi Fred
[15:04] Larry has joined #knownspace
[15:04] #knownspace> Dan: I had to come up with some semi-logical pseudo-science to explain the way they work.
[15:04] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Have you see the press release for JJ Abrams new TV series, 'Revolution'?
[15:04] #knownspace> Larry: Hello all
[15:04] #knownspace> Dan: Hiya Fred. Hiya, Larry.
[15:04] #knownspace> Lensman: I recommend Handwavium.
[15:05] #knownspace> Larry: What needs to work, Dan?
[15:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Revolution, written by Supernatural creator Eric Kripke, is being
[15:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: described as a high-octane action drama following a group of
[15:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: characters struggling to survive and reunite with loved ones in a
[15:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: world where all forms of energy have mysteriously ceased to exist.
[15:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Hey Larry!
[15:05] dmac44 has joined #knownspace
[15:05] #knownspace> dmac44: hi guys
[15:06] #knownspace> fredskuentz: We're basically laughing hysterically at the concept of a world with no energy ...
[15:06] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Larry
[15:06] #knownspace> Jim: If all forms of energy have ceased to exist, then how do their bodies work?
[15:06] #knownspace> NickE: dmac
[15:06] #knownspace> Dan: I'm building steampunk ray guns as costume props for conventions, Larry. I had to doubletalk my way through the nearly-real science involved.
[15:06] #knownspace> Lensman: I think JJ Abrams is doing "Alcatraz", isn't he? Watched the premiere. Seems reasonably well done but I question there is a lot of room for development. How many times can they chase some fugitive convict before it gets old?
[15:06] #knownspace> Larry: Dan you're on your own. If all forms of energy cease, you're instantly dead.
[15:07] #knownspace> dmac44: as is the universe
[15:07] #knownspace> NickE: and presumably any matter involved would also fall apart
[15:07] #knownspace> fredskuentz: It's scary how stuff like that even gets as far as a press release
[15:08] #knownspace> SeanS: off phone... even tho i never said i was on phone. ;)
[15:08] #knownspace> NickE: so not much of a story then
[15:08] #knownspace> fredskuentz: One theory is that he's ripping off the Emberverse books, and it's only specific types of energy, like steam (rolls eyes)
[15:08] #knownspace> NickE: :-)
[15:08] #knownspace> Dan: I think we cross-posted there. There's loads of difference between steampunk and JJ Abrams TV shows, LOL!
[15:09] #knownspace> Lensman: I have a problem with the premise of Stirling's post-apocalypse series, too. Even high-pressure steam engines won't work because gas expands to slowly? But then he has an aerosol can working just fine.
[15:09] #knownspace> Lensman: ...too slowly...
[15:09] #knownspace> Dan: My stuff is just con costume props.
[15:09] #knownspace> fredskuentz: He's just using magic isn't he?
[15:09] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Nantucket goes back to the Viking era or something?
[15:10] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Once you've broken THAT many rules you can probably cherry pick what works and what doesn't :)
[15:10] #knownspace> Lensman: Mind you, the writing is very good on Stirling's series, but it seems to be science fantasy rather than SF.
[15:10] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I've not read it, just descriptions of it
[15:10] #knownspace> Larry: Consistency is hard.
[15:11] #knownspace> NickE: oh like we'd notice .... :-)
[15:11] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[15:11] #knownspace> Lensman: No, I'm not talking about the 1632 series, which is excellent. Well, the ones Fint & Weber wrote themselves, anyway. The ones with other collaboraters... Oy! Talk about dull.
[15:11] #knownspace> NickE: must get harder the longer you keep a series going
[15:11] #knownspace> Lensman: Stirling's series started with /Dies the Fire/.
[15:12] #knownspace> fredskuentz: So fire doesn't even work?
[15:12] #knownspace> fredskuentz: But he has a sun?
[15:12] #knownspace> Dan: Larry, here's a link to some photos of my props. http://www.flickr.com/photos/vilaresthal/
[15:12] #knownspace> Lensman: "Consistancy is hard". Can I quote you, Larry? :D
[15:12] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Dan's props are cool
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: of course, working out how to reconcile inevitable inconsistencies is part of the fun
[15:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Very cool, yah.
[15:12] #knownspace> Larry: Consistency gets lost as a series grows...and someone always does notice.
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: agreed
[15:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Only rabid fanatic fans notice. Like us.
[15:13] #knownspace> NickE: (@ Dan a dn Larry)
[15:13] #knownspace> Larry: Sometimes the game is to reconcile an inconsistency. Decide who was lying.
[15:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Fred: Yes, fire works. Poetic title.
[15:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, the lying is always the easy way out
[15:13] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[15:14] #knownspace> Lensman: I think Stirling wanted to create a world in which the SCA rules.
[15:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Now there's a thought, with an election coming up for you
[15:15] #knownspace> Larry: Sure, Lensman, you may quote.
[15:15] #knownspace> Dan: I'd guess that the "fire" dieing is a poetic reference to civilization falling a bit when Stirling's magic whatever happens.
[15:15] #knownspace> SeanS: sounds similar to Ariel by Stephen Boyett. Recently re-released
[15:15] #knownspace> Lensman: "Dies the fire" is probably a literary reference.
[15:17] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm going to try again to start an actual Niven related discussion: How would you design the "rescue switch" on Kzanol's space suit?
[15:17] #knownspace> dmac44: Better than the Thrint did.
[15:17] #knownspace> Hippy: Just something hard that will last the distance
[15:17] #knownspace> Hippy: Diamond would do, wouldn't it?
[15:18] #knownspace> Lensman: If it was just a simple solid button protruding from the stasis field, it wouldn't work like a simple off switch. The part of the button inside the stasis field would be held immovable.
[15:18] #knownspace> SeanS: the thrint didnt design it, the tnuctpun did and deliberatly designed it badly
[15:18] #knownspace> dmac44: I know :)
[15:18] #knownspace> Hippy: But what if the swithc doesn't move? Does it say it moves in World of Ptavvs?
[15:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Is it some kind of carbon that can carry a charge when you press it?
[15:19] #knownspace> Lensman: It occurs to me that there might be a low-tech solution. Design the switch so that moving it just the distance of a molecule or so shuts off the power. After all, time inside a stasis field doesn't stop, it's just slowed tremendously. You put a brick on the switch, and wait.
[15:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Or rather, touch it, like a touch sensitive switch?
[15:19] #knownspace> SeanS: it doesnt say, the switch was burned away
[15:19] #knownspace> Lensman: Sean is correct.
[15:20] #knownspace> NickE: also says that a few molecules projected above the field
[15:20] #knownspace> NickE: oops
[15:20] #knownspace> NickE: OK, who hit the panic button?
[15:20] #knownspace> Dan: Given that two time retarding fields seem to be able to cancel each other out when one is inside the other, the Kanzol's on/off switch should be just an external field generator to cancle out the suit's field. But how to use it from inside the field? Timers in the external switch?
[15:20] #knownspace> SeanS: tho it was rebuilt for kzanol and greenburg pushed it to send kzanol back into stasis
[15:20] #knownspace> Lensman: In the /Ringworld Roleplaying Game/ a high-tech solution is proposed: The button contains a tiny stasis field generator which activates when the button is pushed on. That stasis field interferes with the larger one long enough for a signal to be sent to the control inside the suit.
[15:21] Larry has joined #knownspace
[15:21] #knownspace> NickE: wb
[15:21] #knownspace> SeanS: wb larry
[15:21] #knownspace> Larry: I went to look at those guns and lost connection. Hi.
[15:21] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't think that works. If the control inside the suit is covered by a stasis field, no signal can reach it. The signal would just reflect off, like any other radiation.
[15:21] #knownspace> NickE: I always assumed that was the most likely explanation
[15:22] #knownspace> dmac44: can gravity get through a stasis field?
[15:22] #knownspace> Larry: That's why the retardation isn't infinite: so something can get through.
[15:22] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes
[15:22] #knownspace> NickE: but no stasis filed can exist inside another, so switch *ould* work that way
[15:22] #knownspace> Lensman: But it occurs to me that if the power circuit had a loop just under the button, and the button had a stasis field generator which interfered with the larger stasis field in the immediate area, then you could install a switch at that point which could shut the field off.
[15:22] #knownspace> dmac44: a gravity wave could reach inside of it then.
[15:23] #knownspace> Hippy: And the button would have some gravity
[15:23] #knownspace> NickE: the Sea Statue had weight didn't it. So gravity does afect the mass inside in some way
[15:23] #knownspace> Lensman: Sean: No, the activation switch isn't the same as the rescue switch. Activation on chest, rescue on back.
[15:24] #knownspace> Lensman: Greenberg pushed the activation switch to put Kzanol back into stasis.
[15:24] #knownspace> dmac44: we know the t had gravity control
[15:25] #knownspace> Larry: I think gravity affects the surface. Just as a black hole retains mass but loses all detail. "black holes have no hair."
[15:25] #knownspace> NickE: I'd buy that
[15:25] #knownspace> dmac44: I wondered if that might be the answer
[15:25] #knownspace> SeanS: hmm, not finding my copy of world of ptavvs
[15:25] #knownspace> Lensman: Gravity affects what's inside the suit, yes. But to an observer outside the suit, the suit is a solid object. So gravity affects the mass as a whole, not the contents individually.
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: yes
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: otherwise the impact would have killd Kzanol
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: gravity - acceleration
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: =
[15:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Hadn't thought of that, Nick. Interesting.
[15:27] #knownspace> NickE: and it wouldnt have been much use as a safety device
[15:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Buit if time is retarded, doens't Kzanol accelerate, or declerate on impact, very slowly?
[15:28] #knownspace> Hippy: Orbital speed to zero in about a billion years?
[15:28] #knownspace> Larry: No, hippy. Surface effect.
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Artificial gravity was apparently invented near the end of the Slaver Empire. Antigravity put Kzanol's grandpa out of business, leaving his family destitute. They sold stage tree logs.
[15:28] #knownspace> dmac44: but if you shut off the field where does all that pent up energy go?
[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: aye, surface
[15:29] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah.
[15:29] #knownspace> NickE: reflected away
[15:29] #knownspace> dmac44: wouldn't want to be in the way of that reflection
[15:30] #knownspace> Lensman: The way I think of it is that if the stasis field is activated, it's like everything inside is suddenly caught in a block of lucite. Sudden deceleration affects the block of lucite, which drags the contents along with it. No "shock" is felt by the contents.
[15:30] #knownspace> NickE: something like that yes
[15:30] #knownspace> Hippy: Okay, that makes sense
[15:30] #knownspace> Jim: that makes sense to me
[15:31] #knownspace> Larry: Lensman: that's how I saw it too.
[15:31] #knownspace> Lensman: I guess what Larry is saying is that the surface of the field is what I'm calling the block of lucite. That is, gravity interacts with the surface of the field, not the contents.
[15:32] #knownspace> Hippy: So what is the mass of the surface?
[15:32] #knownspace> Lensman: Mass of the object as a whole remains unchanged.
[15:33] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, as Douglas Adams said, the law of gravity is a lot more discriminating than most people suppose
[15:33] #knownspace> NickE: yeh, but extarnal effects on that mass are not transmitted within
[15:33] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL! You can fly-- just fall and miss the ground!
[15:33] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:33] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: Arthur Dent got quit good at it
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: quite
[15:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Think of the stasis field as converting the suit and everything in it into a single very large quantum particle. Gravity and acceleration affect the particle as a whole, not the bits of it individually.
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: bingo
[15:35] #knownspace> Dan: Yes, he did. But as I recall, his landings always involved the same shock as he would have felt if he hadn't forgotten to hit the ground on takeoff. :)
[15:36] #knownspace> Larry: If this helps...Tom Digby showed me the stasis field concept can't be made consistent. I wrote that up somewhere.
[15:36] #knownspace> Hippy: Okay, so how does the rescue button work?
[15:36] #knownspace> NickE: conservation of intention
[15:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Larry: Would you please expand on that?
[15:36] #knownspace> Hippy: Good God! Water is falling out of the sky here!
[15:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Here, too.
[15:36] #knownspace> SeanS: been doing that here since last night
[15:36] #knownspace> Hippy: Or some kind of liquid
[15:37] #knownspace> Dan: And how does the Rescue Button avoid becoming just another part of the suit's stasis field?
[15:37] #knownspace> Larry: Put a stasis field around ten light years of metal wire. push on one end. What happens at the other end? When?
[15:37] #knownspace> NickE: Larry, I can understand that I think - it works to a point and then blooey
[15:37] #knownspace> Jim: We are getting God's dandruff here, but please explain the impossibility of a consistent stasis field concept.
[15:38] jonmanyjars has joined #knownspace
[15:38] #knownspace> SeanS: wb mark
[15:38] #knownspace> NickE: it breakse relativity - it would have to to work
[15:38] #knownspace> NickE: and so it can't
[15:38] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Nicke beat me
[15:38] #knownspace> Dan: It's a warm, but windy, day here in Georgia.
[15:38] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:38] #knownspace> fredskuentz: It was explained to me like this
[15:38] #knownspace> fredskuentz: take a quarter million mile stick
[15:39] #knownspace> fredskuentz: put it in stasis
[15:39] #knownspace> fredskuentz: point it at the moon
[15:39] #knownspace> Larry: Bright sunny summery day here.
[15:39] #knownspace> fredskuentz: move it
[15:39] #knownspace> Jim: Larry, that demonstrates that the stadid field concept violates relativity, but it does not make it inconsistent.
[15:39] #knownspace> fredskuentz: it moves instantaneously on the other ed
[15:39] #knownspace> fredskuentz: end
[15:39] #knownspace> senax: Gray ball, corner pocket.
[15:39] #knownspace> Lensman: The bit I have problems with is in "Ghost", where there was a plan to put a base on the antimatter planet, rolling around inside a sphere covered by a stasis field. Once you activate the field, then the base inside and everyone in it is frozen in time, so how can they make observations? If the sphere has holes at the poles, so that the stasis field only covers the surface of the sphere inside and out, then wouldn't it be better to use
[15:39] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and bazinga, you've got FTL communication
[15:39] #knownspace> Hippy: So would a stick not in stasis
[15:40] #knownspace> dmac44: it would probably require more energy than exists in the univesre to put a field around a wire that long.
[15:40] #knownspace> NickE: or to make a field at all
[15:40] #knownspace> Lensman: Dan: Presumably the button projecting from the field is non-conductive. The field is carried by a conductive surface.
[15:40] #knownspace> NickE: maybe
[15:40] #knownspace> dmac44: As for ghost, the base is not in a sphere but a bowl and the base is on a non-conductor within the bowl
[15:40] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Only if you had an imcompressible stick, hippy
[15:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, I see, Fred. Well, yes, I see thw stasis field need now
[15:41] #knownspace> Dan: Ah, then that lets out diamond doesn't it? I thought all forms of carbon were somewhat conductive.
[15:41] #knownspace> Hippy: The stick itself doesn't move faster than light though, so how is relativity violated?
[15:42] #knownspace> fredskuentz: information moving faster than light violates relativity
[15:42] #knownspace> Lensman: Re the light-years-long wire in stasis: Hmmm, yes. That would allow FTL communication, wouldn't it? Still, the theory of Relativity is just that-- a theory. Nothing to say that there can't be exceptions to it.
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: yep
[15:42] #knownspace> senax: If the stick is infinitely rigid, it moves faster than light. That's the catch.
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: well FTL does that
[15:42] #knownspace> Hippy: How does it move faster than light?
[15:43] #knownspace> Hippy: Unless you push it faster than light, of course
[15:43] #knownspace> senax: Both ends move instantaneously = FTL.
[15:43] #knownspace> Hippy: What? Suppose the stick is a foot long. Does the far end move faster than light if I push the stick at ten miles per hour?
[15:43] #knownspace> Dan: So far, gossip is the only thing I know of that moves faster than light that isn't a neutrino.
[15:43] #knownspace> Dan: :)
[15:44] #knownspace> Lensman: Hippy: No, a stick not in stasis doesn't provide FTL communication. The strength of a material is in electrostatic fields, and that moves at no more than lightspeed. If you push on one end of the stick, the movement will be propagated down the length of it at lightspeed, no more.
[15:44] #knownspace> Larry: Hippy: now you've got it. it doesn't take 10ly of wire, it just takes finer instruments.
[15:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, I'll be. .. this is why I like soft science :)
[15:45] #knownspace> Lensman: Dmac: Yeah, a bowl would be much better. But doesn't let you roll around to move to different locations, which I presume is what the purpose of the sphere was.
[15:45] #knownspace> Hippy: I didn't know that about the electrosatis fields
[15:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Can we talk about something I'm good at? :)
[15:45] #knownspace> senax: What are you good at? :-)
[15:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes. .. well, thers's the rub. . .
[15:46] #knownspace> Jim: I'm good at drinking beer.
[15:46] #knownspace> Hippy: I was pondering that last mont's 'nude airlines' idea of Larry's could make an early Knowns Space story
[15:46] #knownspace> Dan: I'm with Jim on that one, LOL!
[15:46] #knownspace> SeanS: same here dan
[15:46] #knownspace> Hippy: Actually, yes, there's a thought
[15:47] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: use antigravity fields to move the base around.
[15:47] #knownspace> Jim: nude airlines?
[15:47] #knownspace> senax: I'm too good at drinking beer, not good enough at metabolizing it.
[15:47] #knownspace> Hippy: The idea is that all air travel is first class, and everyone flies nude for TSA reasons
[15:47] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: Sure, that would work. I just can't see how the idea of the sphere works, as Bey describes it.
[15:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, nudism is a commonplace in Knowns Space, and I think it first turns up in 'Cloak of Anarchy'
[15:48] #knownspace> Hippy: That is, that's its earliest appearance in the KS timeline
[15:48] #knownspace> Lensman: Really, is that the first reference?
[15:48] #knownspace> Hippy: But how did we get there?
[15:48] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, I think so
[15:48] #knownspace> Larry: Nudism was a workable disguise in "The Jigsaw Man".
[15:48] #knownspace> Hippy: No reference in the Erci the Cyborg stories
[15:49] #knownspace> senax: The Eric stories were pretty much self-contained.
[15:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh yeah. So, which comes earlier?
[15:49] #knownspace> dmac44: Hippy: KS timeline or publication date?
[15:49] #knownspace> Hippy: So, as everyone gets used to flying nude, getting in and out of clothes 'just ins't worht the hassle'
[15:50] #knownspace> Hippy: KS timeline
[15:50] #knownspace> Lensman: No, /Ringworld/ was published before "Cloak of Anarchy".
[15:50] #knownspace> Hippy: But it's set a fair while after it
[15:51] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[15:51] #knownspace> Dan: So the TSA went on to make every form of travel just as annoying as standing in the security lines at airports?
[15:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Okay, forgot about the reference in "Jigsaw Man".
[15:51] #knownspace> SeanS: actually i think the guy standing on pluto with moments of super conductive conciousness is the first nudity mentioned but that is a rather extreme case.
[15:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Okay, you're going by chronology, not publication. That's a different question.
[15:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Of course. The first exploding asylum seeker on a train ensures that TSA now makes all travel nude
[15:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, chronology. How did nudism become so accepable?
[15:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Guy on Pluto only removed his helmet, not nude.
[15:52] #knownspace> dmac44: But once transfer booths come along nudity isn't needed for security.
[15:52] #knownspace> Hippy: He didn't have time, Lens
[15:53] #knownspace> SeanS: its been a LONG time since I read that one
[15:53] #knownspace> Dan: Unless early transfer booths couldn't manage clothes as well as the people wearing them. :)
[15:53] #knownspace> Hippy: In a 'Flash Crowd' universe, you carry your bomb in to a riot. On the way out you get dumped in the catchment area and then blow yourself up. But no flash crowds in KS
[15:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Hey
[15:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: have you seen this ads with a bunch of people asking the camera "who DID invent the term 'flash crowd' anyway??"
[15:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: TV ads
[15:54] #knownspace> SeanS: i have not, fred
[15:54] #knownspace> NickE: we know :-)
[15:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I think they're trying to get you to go to ask.com or something
[15:55] #knownspace> Hippy: We could put Larry on an ad, saying 'I invented "Flash Crowd". Now get a life!'
[15:56] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL! I vote for that.
[15:57] #knownspace> Lensman: Seems like there was a reference to "nudist's license" in a Gil the ARM story.
[15:57] #knownspace> SeanS: jigsaw man
[15:57] #knownspace> Lensman: But "Jigsaw Man" would still predate that.
[15:57] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, federal government officials would determine if one was pretty enough to go nude
[15:58] #knownspace> Hippy: There's a thought
[15:58] #knownspace> Larry: Congressmen exempted?
[15:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Ah, okay Sean. You're right, I just checked.
[15:58] #knownspace> Hippy: So, if you haven't got a licencse due to flabbiness or excessive body hair or whagever, you can't fly
[15:59] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry: Hopefully not but probably so.
[15:59] #knownspace> Larry: I'm thinking now: the airline issues paper pajamas. They're uncomfortable, so many don't use them.
[16:00] #knownspace> Larry: The "pretty" ones don't use the pajamas.
[16:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Fourteen hours in paper jamas? I think I'd go nude instead
[16:00] #knownspace> SeanS: you were a big one on paper clothes back in the early days, Larry
[16:00] #knownspace> dmac44: As a nudist I'm not sure I'd want to sit on the same seat that thousands of others have sat on.
[16:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, the seats could have paper covers
[16:01] #knownspace> Jim: how does one make fart noises on a chat?
[16:01] #knownspace> dmac44: okay.
[16:01] #knownspace> Larry: sit on the pajamas.
[16:01] #knownspace> Hippy: WHY does one do that?
[16:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Thinking of nudity in masquerades (costume contests) at SF conventions: Some people who think their body is worthy of display... are wrong.
[16:02] #knownspace> dmac44: lol
[16:02] #knownspace> SeanS: Jim, there is a way but i dont remember how... you can issue a command that will play a wav file on everyone's pc if they have it.
[16:02] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Half pretty girls half dressed to show it"
[16:02] #knownspace> Jim: ok
[16:02] #knownspace> SeanS: been a LONG time since I have messed with that
[16:02] #knownspace> Hippy: That's /sound [filename]
[16:03] #knownspace> SeanS: ah
[16:03] #knownspace> Hippy: That might've worked
[16:04] #knownspace> SeanS: not sure it would work with the eris client. might take a full blown client... but anyway back to paper airline clothes
[16:04] #knownspace> SeanS: paper tears too easily i would think
[16:05] #knownspace> Lensman: No, there really are disposable paper clothes.
[16:05] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, getting changed bvak into your clothes at the airport. Let's say there's 1000 peple on the plane. The conbeniences are going to get crowded
[16:05] #knownspace> Hippy: LAX is bad enough as it is
[16:05] #knownspace> senax: Gotta go shovel snow...bye!
[16:05] #knownspace> SeanS: thats a big plane, hippy
[16:05] #knownspace> Hippy: See ya, xenax!
[16:05] #knownspace> Lensman: 600+ on the new giant Airbus, innit?
[16:06] #knownspace> Hippy: I think Boeing have one on the drawing board that'll take 1200
[16:06] #knownspace> dmac44: why change in a conbenience? Just change after you get your lugage.
[16:06] #knownspace> SeanS: 1200, unless you are flying to australia, you would never get your second drink before the plane landed
[16:06] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, but would you change in the open areas of the airport? I would like to change in a cubicle of some type
[16:06] #knownspace> Lensman: If nudity is socially acceptable, then you don't need a changing room or rest room to change.
[16:07] #knownspace> Lensman: And if it's not acceptable, then just wait until you get home or get to your hotel to change. No point in lining up and waiting for a changing room.
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: But it doesn't start out that way, Lens. It gers acceptable because the airlines force it on you
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Or that's my thinking, anyway
[16:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Sure, but that's why it becomes acceptable. Because 600 people can't all crowd into a changing room at once, and people refuse to wait.
[16:08] #knownspace> dmac44: Of course stasis fields alievates the need for any of this.
[16:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Not changing out of the paper clothes, but changing into them.
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: But nudity might be acceptable on a plane, but not acceptable in, say, the cab to the airport
[16:09] #knownspace> Lensman: Good point, dmac. One problem with stasis fields in KS is: Why aren't they used much, much more? Frozen space travel in "Fly-By-Night"? Why not just stasis; it should be much safer.
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: Taboos about nudity are like that now. I shower nude, but I dress to go and get a burger
[16:10] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, they're easily detectable on radar
[16:11] #knownspace> Lensman: So is the passenger plane.
[16:11] #knownspace> dmac44: So any KS story with nude traveling would need to take place before transfer booths and stasis fields.
[16:11] #knownspace> SeanS: well, it might be in MKW but i seem to remember that earth had exactly 2 functioning stasis fields. all the other non billion year old fields are puppeteer produced
[16:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes. Between 'The Coldest Place' and 'World of Ptavvs' chronologically
[16:11] #knownspace> Lensman: Stasis fields were never used that much, apparently because human engineers could never make them entirely reliable.
[16:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Puppeteers did have reliable stasis fields.
[16:13] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: Not exactly. Variablr swords use stasis fields.
[16:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Julian Forward used stasis fields in "Borderland of Sol". Used them to make unbreakable structural supports for the dome at his base.
[16:13] #knownspace> SeanS: ah, forgot that one
[16:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Good point, dmac. In "Relic of Empire", variable knives seem to be commonplace.
[16:14] #knownspace> dmac44: and in RW.
[16:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Maybe the fields get harder to maintain the bigger they are
[16:15] #knownspace> dmac44: Hippy: yeah they run into those realivity effects.
[16:15] #knownspace> dmac44: relativity
[16:15] #knownspace> SeanS: and depends on what level of time dissociation. just to make a wire rigid would not require much retardation
[16:15] #knownspace> Lensman: I think it's in "The Soft Weapon" where it's said that variable swords brought back the practice of duelling, indicating variable swords are common. But in "Fly-By-Night", variable swords are extremely illegal. Contradiction there.
[16:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Not at all. Duelling might still be illegal on Jinx, but it has increased in frequency
[16:17] #knownspace> Hippy: And how common is common?
[16:17] #knownspace> Lensman: Having your variable knife or -sword field flicker occasionally might not be that much of a problem, unless you were actually duelling at the time. Having the stasis field holding up your skyscraper flicker... would be very, very bad.
[16:17] #knownspace> Hippy: Also, if two variable swords clash, do they make a noise? They can't vibrate like a sword
[16:18] #knownspace> SeanS: excellent point, Hippy
[16:18] #knownspace> Lensman: Interesting point... if it can't vibrate, it makes no noise!
[16:18] #knownspace> NickE: theyd also slide over each other unpredicably - frictionless surface
[16:19] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, duelling with variable-swords would be... dangerous in more than one way!
[16:19] #knownspace> NickE: ineed
[16:19] #knownspace> dmac44: But there's a knob at the end which could inculde sound effets, etc.
[16:19] #knownspace> NickE: indeed
[16:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Now there's a thought
[16:19] #knownspace> Lensman: Put your lightsaber sound effects module in the bulb!
[16:19] #knownspace> NickE: Lightsables <fwoom fwoom>
[16:19] #knownspace> dmac44: a knob that makes noise, sparks, etc. for effect.
[16:19] #knownspace> SeanS: the knob is still enclosed in the field. it is just there to let you know where the end of the wire is.
[16:20] #knownspace> NickE: beat me :-)
[16:20] #knownspace> fredskuentz: is it?
[16:20] #knownspace> fredskuentz: then how is the knob red?
[16:20] #knownspace> Hippy: Is it neclosed in the field? I suppose if it weren't you could cut it
[16:20] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and isn't it luminous sometimes?
[16:20] #knownspace> dmac44: No, the knob is a different color form the wire
[16:20] #knownspace> fredskuentz: right
[16:20] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I assume a loop in the end of the stasis wire, embedded in the ball
[16:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Obviously the knob isn't inside the field. It's non-conductive, the surface doesn't carry the field.
[16:21] #knownspace> Lensman: Besides, I think duelling variable-swords don't have the knob.
[16:21] #knownspace> fredskuentz: uh
[16:21] #knownspace> NickE: and of course, teh OFF switch would have to work similarly to a stasis suits
[16:21] #knownspace> SeanS: well the man himself is here to say if the knob is inside or outside the field
[16:21] #knownspace> Hippy: Is there evidence to support that, Lens?
[16:21] #knownspace> fredskuentz: have we ever actually SEEN a dueling variable sword?
[16:21] #knownspace> Lensman: Give me a minute, hippy...
[16:22] #knownspace> dmac44: in RW Speaker uses one with a red knob
[16:22] #knownspace> Hippy: I have confidnec you'll find it if there is, Lens
[16:22] #knownspace> dmac44: RW, paperback edition p 53
[16:23] #knownspace> Hippy: That mentions the lighted knob, but is there evidence of VS's without knobs?
[16:23] #knownspace> NickE: not as I recall
[16:23] #knownspace> Hippy: And you're a dab hand with a citation, dmac
[16:23] #knownspace> Dan: What about the one in the Soft Weapon?
[16:24] #knownspace> dmac44: may not be a dueling version but what's the point of a variable sword if its not for dueling?
[16:24] #knownspace> Hippy: You can cut water tanks with it :)
[16:24] #knownspace> Dan: Did it have a knob n the end?
[16:24] #knownspace> Lensman: No, can't find it Hippy. Perhaps I'm remembering wrong.
[16:24] #knownspace> Larry: I don't recall iff I wanted the knob inside or outside the field.
[16:24] #knownspace> dmac44: Hippy: I had it out when we started this line.
[16:25] #knownspace> Lensman: And the "off" switch is in the handle, outside the field, so it does not work like the rescue switch.
[16:25] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: why not?
[16:25] #knownspace> SeanS: i have a faint memory of louis thinking about grabbing the knob which would be impossible if it was in the field
[16:25] #knownspace> dmac44: It could touch the field inside the handle.
[16:26] #knownspace> SeanS: stasis fields being frictionless
[16:26] #knownspace> Hippy: I just assume that the switch turns the stasis field gnerator on and off
[16:26] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: Correct re my reference
[16:26] #knownspace> Lensman: Louis does consider trying to grab the knob, in Ringworld. And yes, that does specify a red knob. Obviously outside the field.
[16:26] #knownspace> Lensman: Why not put the switch inside the field? Because it makes it hard to turn it off, of course.
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: If you were duelling without knobs, how woudl you know when yhe blade is going to cut your opponent? You hae to know where the blade ends
[16:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Practice.
[16:27] #knownspace> SeanS: if the knob was in the field it would not show a color other than perfectively reflective.
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: And of course normal eyesight might be able to see the wire
[16:28] #knownspace> Lensman: But since the variable-sword Speaker was using had a red knob to mark the end, then that would seem to be a standard thing.
[16:28] #knownspace> Hippy: I've alwsys assumed that
[16:29] #knownspace> Hippy: Of course, the knobless blade could poke into anything
[16:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Can you see a variable sword blade? Depends on how thick the wire is, I'd say. But a 100% reflective surface is gonna be hard to see unless it's moving.
[16:29] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, the wire is Sinclair monofilament, I think even in Louis' time, and that's supposed to be difficult to focus on
[16:30] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry: Going back to an earlier point. If stasis fields are a macro quantum effect then they could exist. A macro quantum effect ten light years long is unlikely but a smaller scale one (think superconductivity) could exist.
[16:30] #knownspace> Dan: "It slices, it dices, it mal=kes loasd of Julianne Fries..." LOL!
[16:30] #knownspace> Lensman: Okay, then it's extremely thin.
[16:30] #knownspace> Larry: Mac: okay.
[16:31] #knownspace> dmac44: this would also explain why small fields are easier to make than large ones.
[16:32] #knownspace> Lensman: Fly-By-Night's sword was different. It had a vibrating wire-in-stasis at the edge of something shaped like a sword, as I recall.
[16:33] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah. . .my memory of 'Fly-By-Night' fails me
[16:33] #knownspace> Dan: Imagine it as a ship-mounted weapon. Slice a planet in half. Or woven into a planet-sized net. Two ships towing one could dice a planet into easily managable tubes.
[16:33] #knownspace> SeanS: the net sounds pretty good for asteroid mining
[16:33] #knownspace> dmac44: Dan: Would work for asteriod mining.
[16:33] #knownspace> Dan: I was just about to say that.
[16:34] #knownspace> SeanS: great minds...
[16:34] #knownspace> Dan: No need for explosives.
[16:34] #knownspace> dmac44: the power requirements though ...
[16:34] #knownspace> Hippy: 8000 miles of wire to cut the Earth in half. Creepy. . .
[16:34] #knownspace> Larry: That net takes more than two ships.
[16:35] #knownspace> Hippy: I assume gravity would just clamp the two halves back together
[16:35] #knownspace> Lensman: "An elegant weapon for a more civilized age."
[16:35] #knownspace> dmac44: Hippy: put thrusters on the two parts
[16:35] #knownspace> dmac44: assuming just a simple single line
[16:35] #knownspace> SeanS: could be thrusters on the net with the mining ship following
[16:35] #knownspace> Dan: As a weapons designer, I sometimes frighten myself.
[16:36] #knownspace> Dan: Good thing I', just a farm-boy, 'eh?
[16:37] #knownspace> Hippy: And that you use your powers for nicneness, instead of evil
[16:37] #knownspace> dmac44: Some interesting things here. We use a gravity drag to move asteriods into the inner solar system. Then carve them up with stasis wire and transfer the pieces down to earth using transfer booth tech.
[16:37] #knownspace> SeanS: just a hi-tech boating redneck here
[16:37] #knownspace> Lensman: I think it's going to take a significant amount of power or momentum to cut thru a planet. Maybe that's why Larry said it would take more than two ships.
[16:37] #knownspace> Lensman: But yes, for meteor mining that's perfect... if dangerous.
[16:38] #knownspace> Hippy: If ti's perfectly reflective, do you get a light sail that will pass through anything?
[16:39] #knownspace> SeanS: asteroid mining... meteors by definition are in the atmosphere.
[16:39] #knownspace> Hippy: A tight enough weave would reflect enough light and if it hit an asteroid it would just dice it
[16:40] #knownspace> Larry: a tight enough weave would stop that asteroid. Lots of energy release.
[16:40] #knownspace> SeanS: dice it into small pieces as long as the asteroid was
[16:40] #knownspace> SeanS: basically julienne the asteroid
[16:40] #knownspace> Lensman: Okay, I know meteors only exist in the atmosphere, but *you* try to argue with Wild Bill Williams!
[16:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes. Cylinders or oblongs of material
[16:41] #knownspace> Lensman: :)
[16:41] #knownspace> Dan: Wouldn't even have to be a tight enough weave to reflect light. If it has a charge a magnetic field would push or pull it.
[16:41] #knownspace> Hippy: But sunlight is free
[16:42] #knownspace> SeanS: I dont know Wild Bill Williams
[16:42] #knownspace> Hippy: In any case, meteor mining is just a question of how quick you are
[16:42] #knownspace> SeanS: I know a vanished friend that would love to be here for this conversation. :(
[16:43] #knownspace> Lensman: The Lensman Series. One of Kimball Kinnison's disguises: Wild Bill William, meteor miner.
[16:43] #knownspace> SeanS: ah, i remember
[16:43] #knownspace> Lensman: Sorry, anytime anyone mentions asteroid miners, I always think of Wild Bill Williams. Larry may credit Randall Garrett with inspiring the Belters, but I think both authors owe a debt to "Doc" Smith!
[16:44] #knownspace> SeanS: drugged himself up on something to fake people out and let his mind roam all over the place
[16:44] #knownspace> Lensman: Yup. Chewed bentlam, IIRC.
[16:44] #knownspace> SeanS: see... I have read them ;)
[16:45] #knownspace> Lensman: :)
[16:45] #knownspace> SeanS: couldnt get into skylark tho
[16:45] #knownspace> Lensman: Skylark is more fantasy than Lensman is. Maybe a lot more.
[16:46] #knownspace> SeanS: so is anybody seeing any hope for the US space program in the future?
[16:46] #knownspace> Jim: nope
[16:46] #knownspace> Larry: The days before mine, SF writers were finding their balance. Maybe we still are.
[16:46] #knownspace> Dan: Oh? I prefer Skylark to the Lensman series. Also prefered Campbell's Arcot, Wade & Morrey stories over Lensmen, but they're all pretty close together on my list of favorites.
[16:47] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Skylark rocks
[16:47] #knownspace> Hippy: If you can judge by the Hugo nominees, you're right, Larry
[16:47] #knownspace> Lensman: Depends on whether or not "space tourism" is a success. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your POV, robotic probes are a lot more efficient use of NASA's limited resources than manned missions to the planets.
[16:47] #knownspace> SeanS: lately been reading bertram chandler's John Grimes
[16:48] #knownspace> Hippy: All his characters are called Grimes. There's even one in 'Kelly Country'
[16:48] #knownspace> Larry: The robots have been very successful. They're hard to use as characters, though.
[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: ok, john grimes of the survey service
[16:49] #knownspace> Dan: Sad to say, I now have so many friends who are writers that I can't possibly vote for anyone on any award any more. How would I choose? They're all excellent in their own ways!
[16:49] #knownspace> Larry: Dan, accept my empathy.
[16:49] #knownspace> Lensman: If anyone can figure out a "killer app" for something we can't live without that can only be manufactured in zero-gee, then the industrialization of space will commence. Otherwise, I don't see it happening. Nanotech mining seems much more likely today than asteroid mining.
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, my criterion is that if the publishers send me the story in PDF, they dont' get a vote. I hate PDF!
[16:50] #knownspace> Dan: Larry, I just can't play favorites with people with that much talent.
[16:50] #knownspace> SeanS: I like mobi. so does the kindle
[16:50] #knownspace> Jim: What is wrong with PDF files. I like them.
[16:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: pdf are usually awkward on kindles
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: The Kindle won't read them to me :(
[16:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: they're fine on macs
[16:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: lol
[16:51] #knownspace> SeanS: pdf is fine for manuals
[16:51] #knownspace> Jim: PDF is also good for scientific papers.
[16:51] #knownspace> SeanS: no argument
[16:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Note how Newt got laughed at for suggesting he would put a manned base on Luna in his second term as president.
[16:51] #knownspace> Hippy: They're free and ubiquitous - but so is syphillis
[16:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Of course, it would have been more reasonable if he hadn't followed that with a suggestion we'd put so many colonists there that they would qualify for being the 51st state of the Union.
[16:52] #knownspace> Hippy: I think that's a damn good idea
[16:52] #knownspace> Jim: When I was a kid the joke was for a group of kids to give someone the clap, and then start applauding.
[16:52] #knownspace> Dan: PDFs scroll funny. I have to resize the pages to make them scroll without being uneven sized chunks on my monitor.
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: And they hold back progress because people insist on making forms in PDF format that you have to print out and fill in by hand! What is this, the Middle Ages?
[16:53] #knownspace> SeanS: where is Ed today? He usually pops in.
[16:53] #knownspace> Lensman: I hate PDF format. Gigantic waste of memory.
[16:53] #knownspace> Jim: Hippy, the problem is with the people, not with the PDF files.
[16:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, but if PDF wasn't there. . .
[16:54] #knownspace> Lensman: ...then maybe we'd use something sensible like .rtf
[16:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Anyway, that was why I didn't vote for Connie Willis last year. Not that it mattered
[16:54] #knownspace> Dan: Oddly enough, I prefer HTML.
[16:55] #knownspace> Jim: HTML files are commonly too wide for me to read.
[16:55] #knownspace> SeanS: how did we get to document format from space program? talk about topic drift
[16:55] #knownspace> Hippy: Sorry, that was my fault.
[16:55] #knownspace> Dan: We're adaptable, Sean. LOL!
[16:55] #knownspace> SeanS: no worries.. I am just grinning at it
[16:56] #knownspace> Hippy: To return to the subject of a moon colony, I still think a group of people running a radio telescope on the far side of the moon is good for science
[16:56] #knownspace> SeanS: we are mentioned (basically) in the urban dictionary for topic drift
[16:56] #knownspace> Lensman: HTML has the problem that different browsers display it differently. PDF does at least have the advantage that it looks the same on everyone's 'puter.
[16:57] #knownspace> Hippy: Good point, Lens
[16:57] #knownspace> Lensman: Hubble Space Telescope seems to get along fine without any crew, at least most of the time.
[16:57] #knownspace> Dan: No worries. Chat reflects the way I write. All over the place on a million different things. Makes editing a bitch, though. LOL!
[16:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Routine space travel seems to be a dream that's getting further and further away, as time passes since 1969 and the moon landings.
[16:58] #knownspace> SeanS: Dan, I am going to sign up to libertycon after the 17th... should have some disposable income then
[16:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Sadly.
[16:59] #knownspace> Dan: YAY! See you and Larry & Jerry there!
[16:59] #knownspace> SeanS: and hippy
[16:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, Lens. My brother asked me if I saw the first landing and it struck me that he would never see one, probably
[16:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Will never see one, I mean
[16:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes, I'll be there
[16:59] #knownspace> Dan: I'll be delivering the 1st ray gun to Stephanie Osborn there, too.
[17:00] #knownspace> SeanS: the most horrible quote i can imagine comes from Jerry.
[17:00] #knownspace> Dan: I know the quote.
[17:00] #knownspace> Dan: Sad, but it seems to be coming true.
[17:00] #knownspace> SeanS: I always knew I would see the first man on the moon... I never dreamed I would see the last.
[17:00] #knownspace> Hippy: He mentioned on 'This Week in Tech' the other week that Larry is one of the smartest people he knows. That is high praise indeed
[17:01] #knownspace> SeanS: I figured everyone knew it but wth
[17:01] #knownspace> Hippy: No, I was about to quote it
[17:01] #knownspace> Larry: I should get to work. Fare you well, all.
[17:01] #knownspace> NickE: bye Larry
[17:01] #knownspace> Dan: Bye, Larry!
[17:01] #knownspace> Hippy: See you next month, Larry
[17:02] #knownspace> Jim: bye
[17:02] #knownspace> dmac44: bye Larry
[17:02] #knownspace> Dan: You're the reason I want to be an asterod miner, you know.
[17:02] #knownspace> Lensman: We'll see what happens with Virgin Galactic, and whether that leads to development of regular orbital travel. If a suborbital spaceplane becomes affordable, say offering a 4-hour flight from New York or L.A. to Tokyo or Sydney, then hopefully that will lead to regular orbital shuttle service. But what's to go to other than the International Space Station? Bigelow is talking about putting up orbital hotels, but is that something people w
[17:03] #knownspace> Hippy: I suspect the hotels woudl be like cruise ships for stateless persons.
[17:03] #knownspace> Dan: I want short flights from Atlanta to London, myself. But that's just me being selfish. LOL!
[17:03] #knownspace> dmac44: Wealthy stateless persons.
[17:03] #knownspace> Hippy: The main point of the space program is that it uses the cutting edge of technology and does no harm to anyone
[17:04] senax has joined #knownspace
[17:04] #knownspace> SeanS: looks like spacex will be more influential than virgin
[17:04] #knownspace> Jim: How does one board a cruise ship without a passport; no state, no passport.
[17:04] #knownspace> Hippy: There are passports for stateless persons
[17:04] #knownspace> SeanS: wb, senax. larry just left
[17:05] #knownspace> Hippy: In any case, I think I phrased that badly. There are people who just stay on the ship because they can't enter any country
[17:05] #knownspace> Jim: OK
[17:06] #knownspace> Lensman: "The Man without a Country". Great story!
[17:06] #knownspace> Hippy: So they're not exactly stateless, I suppose, but they live their lives on ship for reasons of not being nabbed by the powers that be or whatever
[17:06] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, who wrote that? I've been meaning to track it down
[17:06] #knownspace> SeanS: I would not mind living my life on a ship but I would hope it would be mine and I would be running around the carribean on it.
[17:07] #knownspace> Hippy: My dream too, Sean
[17:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Edward Everett Hale, according to Wiki.
[17:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Much obliged, Lens
[17:07] #knownspace> Lensman: The very rich have many more options in life than the rest of us.
[17:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Gutenberg'll probably have it
[17:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Almost certainly at Gutenberg, yes. Great resource, that!
[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: it is... With the kindle you can also check books out of the local library system... havent tried it yet tho
[17:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Not out here, I don't think
[17:11] #knownspace> Hippy: But I did just buy 'Legacy of Heorot' and 'Dragons of Heorot' on it
[17:12] #knownspace> SeanS: my local library system... i can not answer for a library system on the far side of the world ;)
[17:12] #knownspace> Hippy: And Joseph Green's 'Conscience Interplanetary'
[17:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Heh. I was arguing with someone on another forum about the usefulness of the Kindle. At least when it came out, there was no way to display a PG file on a Kindle, and I was arguing for the Nook (from Barnes & Noble). But then I visited PG to look up a Piper story, and discovered they have now added a Kindle format! Things change...
[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: I love the kindle
[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: extremely easy to read, even in full sunlight. can not speak for the nook as I have never held one
[17:13] #knownspace> Hippy: The text-to-speech function is fantastic
[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: have not messed with text to speech
[17:13] #knownspace> Hippy: . . .although it does jump text some times
[17:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Definitely the wave of the future. But I don't have an e-book reader yet.
[17:14] #knownspace> SeanS: it does that just with reading... all of a sudden you are 200 pages ahead but tapping back a few times usually takes you back to where you were
[17:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Besides, how can you get your favorite author to sign an e-book? ;-)
[17:15] #knownspace> Dan: I'm still using my Netbook as my e-reader. I like what I've got, oddly enough. I may buy an e-reader of some sort later on. But I couldn't say when.
[17:15] #knownspace> Hippy: There are many aspects of it like that, Lens.
[17:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Sure does solve the problem of needing to build more bookshelves, though.
[17:15] #knownspace> SeanS: good point, Lensman. I love a book in my hand. Dan, it is so much easier to read in bed than a laptop
[17:15] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm trying to thrash out a story for a small press thing about the future of the book, and the lack of autographing is one aspect of it. And what of cover art? You don't need to stand out in an e-bookshop
[17:16] #knownspace> NickE: afk
[17:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Further, as was shown, the Kindle can delete books if they're not properly licensed for it
[17:16] #knownspace> SeanS: you carry a book just to hold autographs
[17:16] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, my ASUS is not much bigger than a hardback book.
[17:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Therefore, they could delete books when your licence for that book runs out. This hasn't happened yet, but at least if its a hard copy you only have to buy it once
[17:17] #knownspace> SeanS: well, i have a full size laptop and trying to read and rolling over is a pain in the ass
[17:17] #knownspace> Lensman: Main problem with e-books IMHO is the inability of being able to browse the new releases in a bookstore. What we need are websites which will display new releases in a category for you, perhaps individualized to your personal taste based on what you've bought in the past.
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: I understand that Hippy but as I understand it, amazon has only had to do that a few times and refund the purchase price
[17:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Amazon does a pretty good job of that, Lens
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: amazon does that, lens
[17:18] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, the "I've bought it" "Oh no, you haven't" problem is something I couldn't abide. That's why I love my DVD collection. You can't take those movies away from me!
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: well, there... ya... go.... ;)
[17:19] #knownspace> Hippy: You're right, Sean, but the potential is for books to be downloadable for a limited time and then you'd need to buy them again. It's all about repeat sales
[17:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, providers of entertainment want you to never own anything, and to have to pay to rent it every time.
[17:20] #knownspace> Hippy: Exactly. And e-books make that a real possibility
[17:21] #knownspace> Lensman: Not the authors and artists, but the studios and publishers.
[17:21] #knownspace> Dan: That's why I like having a library on an SDHC card. I wish I could get a 32 gig card without going through mail order.
[17:21] #knownspace> SeanS: good point, HIppy, but i think that unless it is an up front notice that its a temp, that wont happen without a licensing problem and then you will be refunded
[17:21] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes, but I'm talking about the future
[17:22] #knownspace> Hippy: The not-too-distant future
[17:22] #knownspace> Hippy: The other downside is that so much stuff is NOT in e-book format
[17:23] #knownspace> Lensman: I think it's fairly clear that the future of book publishing is that physical books will become a niche item; special printings of special books only. Everything else will be available as e-books and, for those who want a physical book for some reason, print-on-demand.
[17:23] #knownspace> SeanS: exactly, Lens
[17:24] #knownspace> Lensman: POD will be available from a local supplier, no need for centralized warehousing.
[17:24] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, I think print on demand will become very popular, barring of course the copyright holders saying 'You're not printing that'
[17:24] #knownspace> dmac44: I heading off, see you all next month.
[17:24] #knownspace> SeanS: I think Dan has one out POD
[17:24] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Bye, dmac
[17:24] #knownspace> Dan: Bye, DMAC
[17:24] #knownspace> SeanS: later dmac... see ya next time
[17:24] #knownspace> Dan: I have a short story in a collection that is POD.
[17:24] #knownspace> Jim: bye
[17:24] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yeah. I keep meaning to find out what it is, Dan
[17:25] #knownspace> Lensman: I admit that it's very handy to have Niven fiction in electronic format, which makes the text searchable. Much easier to look things up that way.
[17:25] #knownspace> Hippy: That is the e-book's major strength
[17:26] #knownspace> SeanS: that and 3000 books in the palm of your hand
[17:26] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes. Good point
[17:27] #knownspace> Lensman: *shrug* If the author doesn't want to allow POD, that's up to him/her. He doensn't have to offer it to a publisher, either. He can put it in a trunk, where it will remain until after he dies, and then his heirs will publish it against his wishes. (/For Us, the Living/ by Heinlein)
[17:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Lesson: If you really don't want it to ever be published, then burn it.
[17:28] #knownspace> SeanS: small local publisher network and POD would probably increase author income
[17:28] #knownspace> Dan: It's a collection of flash fiction stories that were run as contests in my e-zine. 76 stories of 1000 words each. e-boook & trade paperback & hardcover versions available from lulu.com.
[17:28] #knownspace> Hippy: And what might it be called?
[17:28] #knownspace> Lensman: What is "flash fiction" ?
[17:28] #knownspace> SeanS: Nothing beats perusing a book store tho
[17:28] #knownspace> SeanS: very short stories
[17:29] #knownspace> Dan: Flas is a 1000 word story format.
[17:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Postcard stories?
[17:29] #knownspace> Dan: About 3 or 4 pages long in the trade paperback.
[17:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, that's a lot more reasonable than a drabble-- 100 words isn't sufficient for much!
[17:29] #knownspace> Hippy: Larry did a good one, though
[17:30] #knownspace> SeanS: depends on the story and how concise the author is
[17:30] #knownspace> Lensman: 1000 words would be longer than a postcard story. A vignette, then.
[17:30] #knownspace> SeanS: smaller than a vignette i think
[17:30] #knownspace> Dan: The collection is called "Flash of Aphelion" since my e-zine is named Aphelion Webzine.
[17:30] #knownspace> Hippy: Plus you can do what David Brin did and make up really long words
[17:30] #knownspace> SeanS: great site, Dan. Highly recommended
[17:31] #knownspace> Dan: I think the e-book versions are less than $10.
[17:32] #knownspace> Lensman: The first several stories in /The Draco Tavern/ collection are all 5 pages.
[17:32] #knownspace> Dan: I get 5¢ for every copy sold, LOL!
[17:32] #knownspace> Dan: So far I've made $10 off of it.
[17:33] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL! A flash fiction story in German... 300 pages long.
[17:34] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL!
[17:34] #knownspace> Dan: But I do have my collection of spaceport bar stories and a submission to "Dreams of Steam III" on the publisher's desk over at Kerlak Publishing.
[17:34] #knownspace> Hippy: Dan, I'll have to get the hard copy or else how can you autograph it?
[17:34] #knownspace> Dan: There is that, Hippy, LOL!
[17:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Perhaps you can attach an electronic signature to the story. ;-)
[17:35] #knownspace> Lensman: Not quite the same satisfaction for a collector, tho.
[17:35] #knownspace> Hippy: I shall press that barcode to my heart like a 1950's teenage girl, Lens
[17:35] #knownspace> Lensman: ROTFL!
[17:36] #knownspace> Dan: Actually, ther is an audiobook version over on my You Tube page. http://www.youtube.com/user/vilaresthal
[17:37] #knownspace> Hippy: The e-book version is in PDF!!! GRRRRRR!!!!!
[17:37] #knownspace> Hippy: Is there anywhere on the net you're not, Dan?
[17:37] #knownspace> Dan: Mark Edgemon did the reading & sound effects.
[17:38] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, I've been online since 1996. There are very few places I haven't explored. I'm not on Twitter, for instance.
[17:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Sound effects? I didnt' realize audio books are becoming more like radio plays.
[17:38] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't do audio books.
[17:39] #knownspace> SeanS: I love audiobooks... especially while driving distance
[17:39] #knownspace> Dan: Well, the whole thing is less than 10 minutes reading, Lens.
[17:39] #knownspace> SeanS: kindle does audiobooks too
[17:40] #knownspace> SeanS: damn, i sound like a commercial ;)
[17:40] #knownspace> SeanS: with hippy as backup
[17:41] #knownspace> Hippy: I do the ones for people who don't speak American
[17:41] #knownspace> Dan: Lens, I'm in production of a audioplay version of some of my steampunk music. I'm waiting on a pair of voice actors to get off their butts and send me their lines so I can mix one piece.
[17:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Kindle users are also smarter, more virile, better looking and have less risk of stroke, cancer and diabetes
[17:41] #knownspace> SeanS: well... there... ya.... go....
[17:41] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL
[17:42] #knownspace> Dan: The raw music files are over on my... Wait for it... SoundCloud page. LOL!
[17:42] #knownspace> Lensman: And more attractive to the opposite sex, too.
[17:42] #knownspace> Hippy: To both sexes, Lens. Let's not discriminate here
[17:42] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah... its better than axe shower stuff... walk down the street with a kindle and its like driving a ferrari
[17:42] #knownspace> Lensman: Sorry. No offense to the bent.
[17:42] #knownspace> Hippy: Plus, Gay Kindle is the wave (so to speak) of the fuute
[17:43] #knownspace> SeanS: sucks women right off the bench to be beside you
[17:43] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL
[17:43] #knownspace> Hippy: You're right there. I've had to use it to batter them off
[17:43] #knownspace> Dan: Call it "the complimentary sex" if you want to be alternative-lifestyle friendly, LOL!
[17:44] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm like an e-Beatles concert
[17:44] #knownspace> SeanS: hopefully you had a cover
[17:44] #knownspace> Lensman: I found a good way to phrase it the other day in an e-mail, but now I forget what it was.
[17:44] #knownspace> Lensman: Maybe "Makes you more attractive to those you're attracted to." That even allows for bisexuals.
[17:45] #knownspace> Hippy: In any case, it would be 'complementary', wouldn't it? I mean, they're not complimenting you - unless you have a Kindle
[17:45] #knownspace> SeanS: beer... helping ugly people get laid for 3500 years
[17:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Also, 'Happiness is a warm Kindle'
[17:45] #knownspace> Hippy: And they're for life, not for Christmas
[17:46] #knownspace> Lensman: "Kindles... burning... on an open fire..."
[17:46] #knownspace> SeanS: i got mine for christmas and love it
[17:46] #knownspace> Dan: I've got so many friends that are LGBT, poly, BDSM, or even furries, that I tend to make up gender-nutral terms in casual conversation. It's not easy being accepting of other weirdos. LOL!
[17:46] #knownspace> Hippy: Plus, they make you look taller and on average you make $10 000 more a year if you have one
[17:47] #knownspace> Jim: So, furries exist in the real world?
[17:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Outside of WV, they sure do
[17:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Don't know if there are any marsupial ones, though
[17:47] #knownspace> SeanS: how about fuzzys?
[17:47] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, I could get unemployed for having one at work. They don't even want me to have a paperback or a catalog, much less internet access & an e-reader.
[17:47] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm not sure they live in the real world, myself. I think it's a world all their own.
[17:48] #knownspace> senax: Hmm...my IRC client reconnected 40 minutes ago while I was AFK. Just finished catching up.
[17:48] #knownspace> Jim: Do they wear their costumes to work, school, and church?
[17:48] #knownspace> Hippy: To work, yes, but under their clothes
[17:48] #knownspace> Dan: Jim, I don't ask, and I ask them not to tell me. :)
[17:48] #knownspace> Lensman: Fuzzies exist only in H. Beam Piper stories and pastiches, so far as I know.
[17:48] #knownspace> Hippy: Which would be interesting if you have to be nude to fly
[17:48] #knownspace> SeanS: i just recently read a fuzzy book. got it from the library
[17:49] #knownspace> SeanS: it was not piper... kinda like a rewrite tribute kind of thing
[17:49] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm definitely gonna read Scalzi's "reboot" of the Fuzzy story, when it's available in paperback.
[17:49] #knownspace> SeanS: there ya go
[17:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Here's a thing about Lulu. You can't browse it like a bookshop
[17:49] #knownspace> SeanS: thats the one
[17:49] #knownspace> Dan: Scalzi's book? Or was it "Fuzzy Ergo Sum" ?
[17:50] #knownspace> senax: Lulu?
[17:50] #knownspace> SeanS: I picked it up because it was scalzi
[17:50] #knownspace> Lensman: Hippy: That's exactly my complaint. You can't browse e-books. And sorry, but Amazon.com offering me 4-5 things whenever I visit is hardly the same as browsing the bookstore shelves.
[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: you are going to have to make the adjustment, Lensman, brick and morter book store are on the way out. sadly
[17:51] #knownspace> Dan: "FES" is written my a friend of Lens & I, it's supposed to be closer to Piper than Scalzi's book. I can't say, 'cause I haven't gotten myself a copy yet.
[17:52] #knownspace> Lensman: -/Fuzzy Ergo Sum/ is by another author, who coincidentally (or not) is running one of the Piper discussion lists I belong to.
[17:52] #knownspace> Lensman: I refuse to read his stuff because he pretends to stick to canon, but doesn't.
[17:52] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, Wolf.
[17:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, Wolf. I don't remember his real name.
[17:52] #knownspace> Dan: Wolf Deiter?
[17:52] #knownspace> Dan: I can't recall.
[17:53] #knownspace> Lensman: I try not to get upset on the list, but it really irks me. Either stick to the universe the author created, or-- like Scalzi-- don't even pretend your story is in the same universe.
[17:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Wolf Dieter-Klein???
[17:54] #knownspace> Lensman: Could be, he doesn't use his full name on the list.
[17:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Xenax, Lulu.com is a self-publishing print on demand site
[17:54] #knownspace> Hippy: The genius behind 'Ports of Call'? Wow!
[17:55] #knownspace> Lensman: Lulu.com is pretty popular, I've seen it recommended on Absolute Write, a writers' forum.
[17:56] #knownspace> Dan: Lulu is pretty nice, as POD publishers go. Not quite Vanity Press, and a better deal for the writer than any vanity press sees fit to offer.
[17:56] #knownspace> Jim: Lulu.com is, unlike most POD companies, are a retributable Print On Demand publisher.
[17:56] #knownspace> Lensman: Oh are you on that list too, Dan?
[17:56] #knownspace> SeanS: did you mean reputable, Jim?
[17:56] #knownspace> Jim: yup
[17:57] #knownspace> Jim: no, they have this thing about retribution
[17:57] #knownspace> SeanS: that was on the edge of my web typo range and i have a large range
[17:57] #knownspace> SeanS: oops
[17:57] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, it's an honest service. I think you can even set it up so that it doesn't cost the author a thing, if you do your own editing and provide a cover yourself.
[17:58] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, Lens. On your recomendation, as I recall. I survived the transition from the original "no off-topic posts EVER!" list to the new one.
[17:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Dang. The 'Ports of Call' guy is 'Rolf' Dieter-Klein
[17:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Anyone who orders your book pays the Lulu.com fee, plus whatever surcharge the author tacks on.
[17:58] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, I want a cover of two women having sex on the cover of my book about space exploration.
[17:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Rolf = Wolf
[17:58] #knownspace> Lensman: I think
[17:59] #knownspace> Hippy: It does, Lens, so it might be him
[17:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Jim, I'd buy that for a dollar
[17:59] #knownspace> Jim: Has anyone seen the show Lost Girl on Syfy?
[18:00] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm very glad the list has changed from the stifling "No off topic, and anything but Piper is off-topic" restriction. Really? I can't make a post that talks about Heinlein and his influence on Piper? Ridiculous.
[18:00] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL!
[18:00] #knownspace> Lensman: SEX!! Now that I have your attention...
[18:01] #knownspace> SeanS: Jim, I have not
[18:01] #knownspace> Hippy: No SyFy channel out here :(
[18:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Honestly, it gets ridiculous what ads use pictures of scantily clad women in. That might make an interesting book; a collection of ads in which semi-nude women were used to advertise hardward and other things with absolutely no sex appeal... unless you have a truly outre fetish!
[18:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Dan, is Nathan Kailhofer in this book of yours?
[18:02] #knownspace> Dan: Lens, I agree. I just wish that Mike guy from Alaska could frame a post in terms other than fragmented thoughts.
[18:02] #knownspace> Lensman: ...hardware...
[18:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Dan: I killfiled him-- both of his nom de plumes-- and have never regretted it.
[18:02] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, Nate edited the book and runs the flash fiction contests at my e-zine.
[18:03] #knownspace> Hippy: So it's the right one? Good
[18:04] #knownspace> Dan: Thanks for the nickle, Hippy! LOL!
[18:04] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[18:04] #knownspace> Lensman: Alaska Mike once added me to a list he runs... without asking my permission. I told him rather firmly that was not appreciated, but didn't "go off" on him. I think he has mental problems, seriously.
[18:05] #knownspace> Dan: Lens, ya think?!?!?
[18:05] #knownspace> Lensman: :)
[18:05] #knownspace> Lensman: To quote Bugs Bunny: "Mmmmm... could be!"
[18:05] #knownspace> SeanS: I am really looking forward to meeting the authors, Dan, Lyn and Hippy at LibertyCon
[18:05] #knownspace> Jim: Some people with mental problems are on R3's site.
[18:06] #knownspace> Dan: I think hes ADHD, but not bipolar. My wife is bipolar, so I've got a real feel for those thought processes.
[18:06] #knownspace> Lensman: Confess I haven't looked at R3's site, except perhaps just casually once when he introduced himself to me.
[18:07] #knownspace> Lensman: I get enough politics watching MSNBC regularly, don't need to argue that with anyone.
[18:07] #knownspace> Jim: John Many Jars has written some non-fictional articles about space exploration for the site.
[18:07] #knownspace> Dan: Well, politics seems very important to R3, so I wish he's stick to writing fiction.
[18:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Especially as divisive as U.S. politics have become over the last decade or so.
[18:08] #knownspace> Jim: Dish network would require my mother to pay more for MSNBC; no wonder their ratings are bad.
[18:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Did I spell that right? "divisive"? Well, you know what I mean.
[18:08] #knownspace> Hippy: Lulu reminds me that their manufacturing process precedes shipping. But what if it didn't?
[18:08] #knownspace> SeanS: actually, Lensman, I am reading a book called December 1941. A day by day study of that month and politics have not changed in 70 years.
[18:09] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, I doubt that politics has changed that much in the past 3 million years.
[18:09] #knownspace> Lensman: Hmmm, shipping preceding manufacturing. Well, either it's talking about shipping raw materials, or else you need a time machine. :)
[18:09] #knownspace> Lensman: "Times change, people don't."
[18:09] #knownspace> SeanS: Dan, you are most likely right but I can only talk from Dec 1941
[18:10] #knownspace> Dan: Lens, it *is* sci-fi. LOL!
[18:10] #knownspace> Lensman: Sean: That sounds interesting, maybe I should get it from the local library.
[18:11] #knownspace> SeanS: lots of newspaper headlines and articles sited
[18:11] #knownspace> Hippy: It was nice of them to spell it out, though, just in case I got worried that some shipping arrived with nothing in it
[18:11] #knownspace> Jim: When do you think that we are going to be at war with Iran?
[18:12] #knownspace> SeanS: right after israel kicks their ass
[18:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Not if Obama gets back in. The plan is to get out of the Middle East
[18:12] #knownspace> SeanS: and every other country jumps israel
[18:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Can't wait for the Israeli-Tokelau war!
[18:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Does anyone know what SPDIF stands for?
[18:13] #knownspace> Jim: What is the Tokelau?
[18:13] #knownspace> SeanS: israel has never really been agressive. always reactive
[18:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Good question as to whether Israel will make a preemptive strike on Iran, or if we will so they won't have to. There are a lot of our Arabian allies who are pressuring the U.S. to go first.
[18:13] #knownspace> Lensman: If it wasn't for that, I'd be sure Israel would do it.
[18:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Tokelau is a small island nation in the Pacific. Population about 15000, I think
[18:14] #knownspace> SeanS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF
[18:14] #knownspace> Dan: "And in tonight's news, Easter Island declares war on the rest of the planet... A short film at 11..."
[18:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Problem is that I doubt we can really stop their nuclear program without either a ground invasion or a nuclear strike, and I'm not sure either is politically viable.
[18:15] #knownspace> Dan: Lens, what we need is a meteor strike on Iran. "Look! Allah is displeased with them!"
[18:16] #knownspace> Hippy: So my onboard sound has digital output? Bloody hell, why did I buy another sound card?
[18:16] #knownspace> SeanS: meteorite strike... i know i am picking
[18:16] #knownspace> Lensman: In 1967, Israel started the Six Day War by a preemptive strike on its neighbors.
[18:16] #knownspace> Dan: What;s one asteroid or two between friends?
[18:16] #knownspace> Jim: Sunni Muslims have been saying that Allah has been displeased with Iran for some time.
[18:16] #knownspace> Hippy: I miss the Shah
[18:17] #knownspace> Dan: Several people missed the Shah. He kept dodging.
[18:17] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL!
[18:17] #knownspace> Lensman: As long as the low-level war sabotaging Iran's nuclear program is effective... using sabotage, computer viruses and occasional assassination... that's certainly preferable. But I think that's just slowing progress, not stopping it.
[18:18] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL! Missed...
[18:18] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, a meteor for Iran is certainly a good argument in favor of a robust manned space program. :)
[18:18] #knownspace> Lensman: Deniability might be a problem, tho.
[18:18] #knownspace> SeanS: the 6 day war was a response by Israel to the agressive nature of their neighbors
[18:19] #knownspace> Dan: Where is Remo Williams when you really need him?
[18:19] #knownspace> SeanS: preventive response
[18:19] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[18:19] #knownspace> Lensman: Unfortunately Remo Williams is just as fictional as a Footfall strike.
[18:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Much as I may wish otherwise.
[18:20] #knownspace> Lensman: But from what Israel is saying now, an attack on Iran would be exactly such a preventative strike.
[18:20] #knownspace> SeanS: and i agree
[18:20] #knownspace> SeanS: that fucker in iran is nuts
[18:21] #knownspace> Lensman: If you take them at their word, they believe that Iran with a nuke really does constitute an elemental threat to their existance.
[18:21] #knownspace> Dan: Same here. There is always some idiot in the way that a good assassin could have been able to remove.
[18:21] #knownspace> Jim: And his bosses are even worse.
[18:21] #knownspace> Jim: Three well placed nuclear weapons would be a second holocaust.
[18:21] Hippy has joined #knownspace
[18:22] #knownspace> Jim: Hippy
[18:22] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, it's good to be back
[18:22] #knownspace> Dan: WB, Hippy. Did Lulu cause you to disconect?
[18:22] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm getting sick of these dropouts
[18:22] #knownspace> Dan: She's such a naughty girl.
[18:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Not sure what it was, Dan. I got a notice saying my brioadbad was 'currently unavailable' and so I thought I'd test that statement here
[18:23] #knownspace> Lensman: I heard a guy just a day or two on the PBS News Hour arguing the opposite, that Iran wouldn't dream of using a nuke if it had one, because it would be annihilated in response. While that may be true-- depending on whether or not they really are as fanatic as they appear to us-- it certainly is true that if Iran gets a nuke, its neighbors will be forced to get one too, to protect themselves. And that's why I think that appeaser is a mora
[18:24] #knownspace> Lensman: (Don't beat around the bush Lens... tell us what you -really- think!)
[18:24] #knownspace> Hippy: Appeasement hasn't worked too well in the past
[18:24] #knownspace> SeanS: israel already has nukes. the best thing is buster bomb the facilities in iran
[18:25] #knownspace> Hippy: As a matter of interest, which nations have ever used nukes in warfare? Oh, yeah. . .
[18:25] #knownspace> Dan: Appeasment never works. They always misteak kindness for weakness,
[18:25] #knownspace> SeanS: in that part of the world... yes
[18:25] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, US.
[18:25] #knownspace> Hippy: It's working with China and Taiwan
[18:25] #knownspace> Hippy: Whether that can continue is a good question, though
[18:25] #knownspace> senax: What we need is another invasion. And occupation. And...er...
[18:26] #knownspace> senax: never mind.
[18:26] #knownspace> Lensman: Sure, we're the only nation to use a nuke as a weapon of war. And so what? The political situation in 1945 was very, very different than it is today.
[18:26] #knownspace> SeanS: thats why hillary was such a poor choice for secstate... not from her ability in the job but nobody in that area respects a woman to begin with
[18:26] #knownspace> Hippy: Amen, xenax
[18:26] #knownspace> Lensman: That point gets raised all the time, but it seems irrelevant to me.
[18:27] #knownspace> SeanS: which point?
[18:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Yeah, but there's more to the world than just the unexploded towelheads. Hillary is respected in other parts of it
[18:27] #knownspace> Dan: It may be time for another TR in the White House. "We've got a big stick. You don't want to get smacked with it, back the fuck off!"
[18:27] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't regard our arrangement with China as "appeasement". They are an important economic trading partner. Not to mention our bank... unfortunately.
[18:27] #knownspace> Hippy: I think Obama could deliver 'back the fuck off' pretty well
[18:27] #knownspace> senax: Another TR wold be a refreshing change in many ways.
[18:28] #knownspace> SeanS: hippy, where she is respected, if she is, is not the middle east and thats the big trouble area now
[18:28] #knownspace> Lensman: The point that the U.S. is the only country to have used a nuke in anger. So what? It's not like Japan or Germany wouldn't have used it if they had one.
[18:28] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, I hope he never has to, but if it comes down to the wire, I hope he doesn't wimp out.
[18:29] #knownspace> Hippy: The thing seems to me that the US isn't clear to itself about what it wants in the Middle East. The clear goal is 'defned the oil'. The rest of it could be glow in the dark slag if it wants to
[18:29] #knownspace> Hippy: But you get yourselves bogged down in these long occupations
[18:30] #knownspace> Hippy: In 1945, of course, you could nuke because no-one could nuke back. That's all changed now
[18:30] #knownspace> Lensman: This is why I really hope the electric car will take off, big-time. So we can quit buying oil from the mideast... and from every country that oppresses its own people.
[18:30] #knownspace> SeanS: its not the military... it is the lack of political will
[18:31] #knownspace> SeanS: that will never work Lensman
[18:31] #knownspace> Lensman: Remove the motive of oil from our foreign policy in the mideast, and I think things will be better all around.
[18:31] #knownspace> Hippy: True, Sean. The USMC or whoever could take down Iran's government pretty easily. The problemn would then be to put something in its place, and that is what the US is not good at
[18:31] #knownspace> Hippy: Not that we're any better. . .
[18:31] #knownspace> Jim: If you Google "Obama is gay", you get web sites that claim that he is.
[18:32] #knownspace> SeanS: any business will buy from the cheapest source... oil is used in a ton of stuff other than cars
[18:32] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, but too many businesses have a vested interest im insuring that no viable alternative to oil is adopted in their lifetime.
[18:32] #knownspace> Lensman: The truly sad thing is that the progression of the Arab revolution probably isn't fast enough to prevent the Iranians from getting the Bomb. But I think the best solution would be to continue to sabotage their program to delay it until the government falls.
[18:32] #knownspace> SeanS: and i can not see an electric car getting me a load of wood or hauling the boat
[18:32] #knownspace> Hippy: I saw on 'American Dad' the other night that there is a movement that says Lincoln was gay. Now, I'm no Lincoln fan, but bloody hell. . .
[18:33] #knownspace> SeanS: no arguement hippy
[18:33] #knownspace> SeanS: on putting new people in place
[18:33] #knownspace> SeanS: not the gay thing
[18:33] #knownspace> Dan: There is also a movie coming out that claims that Lincoln was the precursor to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, only against zombies.
[18:33] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, that thing. . .
[18:34] #knownspace> Jim: If you Google "Newt Gingrich is gay", you get web sites that discuss the latest homophobic statement made by Newt.
[18:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Use of oil for manufacturing, such as making plastics, can be replaced with sugar. I presume oil is cheaper, or we would already be doing that. But it would make it politically possible for us to quit buying OPEC oil. In my opinion, of course.
[18:34] #knownspace> Hippy: Come the revolution, people who make movies out of comics will be lined up against the wall and shot
[18:34] #knownspace> SeanS: and another hitchhiker reference
[18:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Lincoln was gay? I'm sure that would have been a surprise to his wife.
[18:35] #knownspace> Hippy: The problem with the sugar solution, Lens, is that sugar becomes as expensive as oil. That's what Brazil is making a ton of rials out of
[18:35] #knownspace> Dan: Come the revolution, people who line up people against the wall to be shot will be lined up against a wall and shot.
[18:35] #knownspace> SeanS: he is buried a couple of bends down river from my house
[18:35] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, so it is, Sean
[18:35] #knownspace> Lensman: "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter". Yes, it's a novel and soon to be a movie. A very *bad* movie, from looking at the trailer.
[18:35] #knownspace> Lensman: One of my friends likes the novel, tho.
[18:36] #knownspace> Hippy: I would like to say that the people responsible for putting people up against the wall to be shot have been put up against the wall and shot
[18:36] #knownspace> SeanS: and you could go on like that for days
[18:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Brazil rials? What are rials?
[18:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Typo?
[18:37] #knownspace> Jim: unit of currency
[18:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Thankx
[18:37] #knownspace> Hippy: Their currency, I hope :)
[18:37] #knownspace> Hippy: Phew!
[18:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Hippy: You stole that from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail".
[18:38] #knownspace> Dan: Was it vampires? I didn't remember the adverts well enough, then.
[18:38] #knownspace> Hippy: I did :(
[18:38] #knownspace> Hippy: You probably suppressed it, Dan
[18:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Turn that frown upside down!
[18:38] #knownspace> Hippy: Sure thing :)
[18:38] #knownspace> Dan: Well, I never intended to give them any of my money, yeah.
[18:39] #knownspace> Lensman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X58RPS665V0
[18:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Disturbingly, a Larry Niven chat that was sent back through a wormhole in time reports that the producers of 'Abe Lincoln: Vampire Hunter' were the first against the wall when the revolution came
[18:40] #knownspace> SeanS: damn
[18:40] #knownspace> Hippy: It also reported Dan's Hugo, Lens's Nobel Peace Prize and my death
[18:40] #knownspace> Lensman: I think the zombie sub-genre is getting rather much over-exposure. Altho "World War Z" sounds interesting, I may read that.
[18:40] #knownspace> Dan: I hope the firing squad was using really big bullets!
[18:41] #knownspace> SeanS: i have that on the kindle... starts out in first person but have only read a few pages
[18:41] #knownspace> Hippy: They were using Hollifield ray guns
[18:41] #knownspace> Lensman: Lens is much too argumentative to ever get a Nobel Peace Prize.
[18:41] #knownspace> Lensman: But maybe that was after I had that head injury.
[18:41] #knownspace> Hippy: They changed the rules. It's like 'American Idol' then
[18:42] #knownspace> Dan: WWZ isn't at all bad. Cherie Priest's Clockwork Century series isn't bad either. And Jana Oliver's Deamon Trapper's Daughter series makes Buffy look like a pre-school chearleader.
[18:42] #knownspace> Lensman: "Isn't at all bad"? Damned with faint praise!
[18:43] #knownspace> Lensman: I loved Buffy. At least the 2-6th seasons. The last season was pretty sucky, tho.
[18:43] #knownspace> SeanS: wwz was recommended to me by my cousin on google plus and seconded by prichard if that helps
[18:43] #knownspace> Dan: Lens, I've only read it once. I liked it, but I haven't spare time to reread it and be a critic.
[18:43] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I thought 6 was worse than 7.
[18:43] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, gentlemen, all this talk of zombie holocausts has put me in need of a burger, so I shall bid you all a fond farewell
[18:43] #knownspace> fredskuentz: granted they both sucked swamp water.
[18:43] #knownspace> fredskuentz: eat one for me hippy!
[18:44] #knownspace> Hippy: I will, Fred
[18:44] #knownspace> Hippy: See you all on the sixth of March
[18:44] #knownspace> SeanS: bring me one hippy but i think it will be a bit cold
[18:44] #knownspace> Dan: Same here, I'm STARVING! We've only got Chinese food and a salad here.
[18:44] #knownspace> Jim: I have also got to get something to eat for supper. Bye.
[18:44] #knownspace> Hippy: If that's the Ides of March
[18:45] #knownspace> Dan: Ides would be around the 15th, as I recall.
[18:45] #knownspace> Lensman: Buffy was my favorite show when it was on, except for that last season. Doesn't make anyone who disagrees wrong, it just means we have different tastes.
[18:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Also, look up 'Bomb Iran' on YouTube. It should be there
[18:45] #knownspace> Dan: Vince Vance and the Vallants!
[18:45] #knownspace> Lensman: I have been thinking of being AFK myself, as I haven't eaten today.
[18:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Could be, Dan
[18:46] #knownspace> Hippy: See you all a week and a half before the Ides, then
[18:46] #knownspace> SeanS: cool
[18:46] #knownspace> Hippy: And remember, 'manufacturing precedes shipping'
[18:46] #knownspace> SeanS: most definately will be at libertycon
[18:46] #knownspace> Hippy: Let's see Gingrich argue his way out of that!
[18:47] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Bye
[18:48] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I liked Buffy so much I watched it twice each night when it was first run
[18:48] #knownspace> fredskuentz: local and TBS(?) feed
[18:48] #knownspace> fredskuentz: one had good sound and an awful picture
[18:48] #knownspace> fredskuentz: the other had a good picture and awful sound
[18:48] #knownspace> fredskuentz: :)
[18:48] #knownspace> SeanS: i pull everything off the net.
[18:48] #knownspace> SeanS: other than sports, i could get rid of the sat
[18:48] #knownspace> fredskuentz: The US is gonna put a stop to that Sean
[18:49] #knownspace> SeanS: they can try
[18:49] #knownspace> fredskuentz: they seem to be doing a pretty good job of it
[18:49] #knownspace> fredskuentz: raids in new zealand? wtf?
[18:49] #knownspace> Dan: I enjoyed most of the episodes of Buffy. Maybe 1/4 of each season didn't appeal to me, but that's still a pretty good average for eps I liked.
[18:50] #knownspace> SeanS: fred, look into ipv6
[18:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Will it keep Cox cable from monitoring what I'm downloading and reporting it?
[18:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: 'cause they're doing that now
[18:51] #knownspace> SeanS: ssl does that
[18:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: The whole 'lost sales' thing is so lucicrous
[18:51] #knownspace> SeanS: i agree
[18:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I dl'd the Lost Girl pilot and gave it to a bunch of people
[18:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and now they WATCH THE FREAKING SHOW
[18:52] #knownspace> SeanS: i am in to high def now... i dont download any movie unless it has already been shown on channels i already get
[18:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: yeah
[18:52] #knownspace> SeanS: public domain in my opinion
[18:52] #knownspace> Dan: Fred, if there is an alternative to Cox that you can get, you should. If you have a choice, deny them your money. If you don't have a choice... You're hosed.
[18:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I'm hosed
[18:53] #knownspace> Dan: Damn.
[18:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: My only alternatives would be dish or direct tv, but then I lose the interweb.
[18:54] #knownspace> SeanS: i refuse to go to a movie theater because of the people in the theater being rude and obnoxious. they are losing no money off of me
[18:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: And it would be pointless to get my TV someplace else and leave my interweb with cox :)
[18:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I may actually go to a movie again
[18:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: haven't been able to for years
[18:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I'm still trying to adjust to being able to go outside again
[18:54] #knownspace> SeanS: julie takes her son evan to the theater... i refuse to go
[18:55] #knownspace> Dan: I get my internet access through my phone company rather than cable. Sorry. My phone company doesn't care what I do online as long as they get their monthly payments on time.
[18:55] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I may borrow somebody's kid to take to JOURNEY 2 MYSTERIOUS ISLAND
[18:55] #knownspace> SeanS: dan, my isp ignores stuff as well
[18:55] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Phone company doesn't, and will not ever, service this address for interweb
[18:56] #knownspace> Lensman: We have a NetFlix account now. DVD by mail, not that streaming stuff. So it's rare for me to go to a movie theatre these days.
[18:56] #knownspace> SeanS: my phone and cable internet are through the same provider... tv comes from dish
[18:56] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I have the netflix streaming
[18:56] #knownspace> Dan: Once again, damn. Fred, you live in an area that I would choose not to.
[18:56] #knownspace> fredskuentz: the image is a little muddy, but still pretty cool
[18:56] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and I like that it works on the ipad
[18:56] #knownspace> SeanS: my media thing does netflix but i dont use it
[18:56] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I dislike the hobbled fast forward/pause/rewind though
[18:57] #knownspace> SeanS: i highly recommend the wdtv live
[18:57] #knownspace> Lensman: NetFlix streaming had none of the movies I wante to watch, so when NetFlix made us choose either streaming or DVD-by-mail, I chose the latter.
[18:58] #knownspace> SeanS: it does netflix as well as youtub and everything else you can think of
[18:58] #knownspace> fredskuentz: netflix is really schizophrenix
[18:58] #knownspace> fredskuentz: they keep claiming they're trying to move to an all streaming business model
[18:58] #knownspace> fredskuentz: but they keep all the good stuff for mail order
[18:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Bingo, Fred.
[18:58] #knownspace> SeanS: i pull everything off the newsgroups
[18:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Stupid business model.
[18:59] #knownspace> fredskuentz: they also have weird stuff you can't get anywhere else
[18:59] #knownspace> fredskuentz: like, they had a HD version of THE GREAT RACE
[19:00] #knownspace> SeanS: good flik
[19:00] #knownspace> fredskuentz: but it was 16:9, chopping off about 1/3 of the CinemaScope image
[19:00] #knownspace> fredskuentz: but at least somebody out there remembers ...
[19:00] #knownspace> senax: I'd like to ditch cable; unfortunately my wife watches a lot more TV than I do...she'd miss a lot of things.
[19:00] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Sean, I'm building the Fate sub for a friend's wedding present
[19:01] #knownspace> fredskuentz: it will be my first step into the world of 3D printing
[19:01] #knownspace> SeanS: i am not remembering the fate sub
[19:01] #knownspace> fredskuentz: :(
[19:02] #knownspace> SeanS: the sub you did for disney?
[19:03] #knownspace> Lensman: Fate sub?
[19:03] #knownspace> fredskuentz: http://lh3.ggpht.com/victorianaesthetic/SDwKY693H6I/AAAAAAAABSA/Xhm0Zl6b...
[19:03] #knownspace> SeanS: i feel that i should remember
[19:03] #knownspace> fredskuentz: wow, it put the image right in the chat??
[19:03] #knownspace> SeanS: it may for your client but it did not for mine
[19:03] #knownspace> SeanS: .
[19:03] #knownspace> Lensman: No, not for eris it didn't.
[19:03] #knownspace> fredskuentz: it gave me the url, with the image under it
[19:04] #knownspace> fredskuentz: thumbnail, clickable
[19:04] #knownspace> senax: I only got a clckable url.
[19:04] #knownspace> senax: Worked fine, though.
[19:04] #knownspace> Lensman: I have been meaning to re-watch "The Great Race". I hate the pie fight at the end, but until that point it's a wonderful film!
[19:04] #knownspace> fredskuentz: this is the sub I did for disney
[19:04] #knownspace> fredskuentz: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/NautilusByWikiFred.jpg
[19:04] #knownspace> SeanS: kinda looks like a cross between the nautilus and the hunley
[19:04] #knownspace> Lensman: I didn't remember the sub at all.
[19:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: another thumbnail, hee hee
[19:05] #knownspace> Lensman: Nautilus and Hunley cross, yes that's pretty much what I was thinking too.
[19:05] #knownspace> SeanS: whats the client you use, fred?
[19:06] #knownspace> SeanS: oh, sorry that i was looking at the jan calander when i said feb 7
[19:06] #knownspace> Lensman: Why does my screen say "eris [Wrath of God]" ?
[19:06] #knownspace> Lensman: Sean, did you get promoted to a deity without telling me?
[19:07] #knownspace> SeanS: well, here i am a deity but i have no idea why it says that
[19:07] #knownspace> fredskuentz: see if this works
[19:07] #knownspace> fredskuentz: http://gallery.me.com/anim8rfsk/100085
[19:07] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I'm using LimeChat
[19:08] #knownspace> fredskuentz: That URL will hopefully take you to a gallery where you can see the Fate sub in progress
[19:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Ah, so I guess you're one of those Greek or Roman gods. Too bad, you should have held out for Judaeo-Christian godhood, 'cuz they hand out omniscience with that.
[19:09] #knownspace> SeanS: the only gods i can identify with are Bacchus and Dionysus
[19:10] #knownspace> SeanS: same god... different cultures
[19:10] Lensman has joined #knownspace
[19:10] #knownspace> fredskuentz: lemme guess, my gallery killed Lensman :)
[19:10] #knownspace> SeanS: i will repost for lensman's benifit
[19:11] #knownspace> SeanS: the only gods i can identify with are Bacchus and Dionysus
[19:11] #knownspace> Lensman: No, I think I just closed the window instead of the tab.
[19:11] #knownspace> SeanS: same god... different cultures
[19:15] #knownspace> senax: How about Ninkasi or Silenus?
[19:15] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I put a couple more pics in the gallery
[19:15] #knownspace> fredskuentz: detail of the stern
[19:15] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and a photo overlay showing how I'm matching it
[19:15] #knownspace> SeanS: beyond my knowledge senax
[19:16] #knownspace> senax: Ninkasi was the Sumerian goddess of beer.
[19:16] #knownspace> SeanS: ok
[19:16] #knownspace> SeanS: hope i can remember that
[19:17] #knownspace> senax: Silenus was the Greek god of beer. He was Dionysus's drinking buddy, but the Greeks weren't big on beer.
[19:18] #knownspace> SeanS: senax, your knowledge of ancient gods obviously kicks the shit out of mine
[19:18] #knownspace> senax: Ninkasi I knew; Silenus I googled.
[19:18] #knownspace> senax: Beer was a big deal to the Sumerians.
[19:18] #knownspace> SeanS: i call google my alternate brain
[19:19] #knownspace> senax: And nowadays you probably can't have a beer there.
[19:19] #knownspace> SeanS: tis ok, i am having a beer here
[19:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Fred would you plz re-post the link?
[19:20] #knownspace> fredskuentz: http://gallery.me.com/anim8rfsk/100085
[19:20] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't recognize those other gods either.
[19:20] #knownspace> senax: Yeungling lager here.
[19:21] #knownspace> SeanS: not so sophisticated here.... just miller lite
[19:22] #knownspace> Lensman: Mtn Dew is my ambrosia-- nectar of the ghods!
[19:23] #knownspace> senax: "Triple hop brewed" and you still can't taste any hops. They're doing it wrong.
[19:23] #knownspace> Lensman: Fred, if that's a digital model, why is the first image on a stand? Visual joke?
[19:23] #knownspace> senax: Regular Mtn Dew or Throwback?
[19:24] #knownspace> Lensman: Regular. What is "throwback" ?
[19:24] #knownspace> fredskuentz: No, that's my digital model, on it's digital stand. :)
[19:24] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I was trying to design a stand for it
[19:24] #knownspace> fredskuentz: but they were going to cost more to print than the model
[19:24] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and I decided to go minimalist
[19:24] #knownspace> fredskuentz: restaurant receipt spike. $2.99 from Amazon.
[19:24] #knownspace> senax: Same thing but with real sugar, Lens. The recipe may be slightly different in other respects.
[19:25] #knownspace> senax: Availability is spotty. Same thing as with Pepsi Throwback.
[19:26] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, I've tried different things marketed under the Mtd Dew label. Diet, and there was something a different color... was it blue? Didn't care for either.
[19:26] Dan has joined #knownspace
[19:26] #knownspace> Lensman: Also something red. Cherry Mtn Dew? Look, you shouldn't try to guild the lily!
[19:26] #knownspace> senax: Nah, those odd flavors were different. Throwback is a return to the recipe used in the '70s.
[19:26] #knownspace> SeanS: hiya agian dan
[19:27] #knownspace> Dan: Well, that was fun.
[19:27] #knownspace> senax: There was Code Red; tried it; didn't like it.
[19:27] #knownspace> SeanS: what happened?
[19:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Code Red, yah.
[19:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Can't improve on perfection.
[19:28] #knownspace> senax: I actually like Diet Mtn Dew better than regular; it's a little less sweet.
[19:28] #knownspace> Dan: Dunno, just got disconnected and then reconnected automatically.
[19:28] #knownspace> fredskuentz: If anybody wants to see my TIME TUNNEL model:
[19:28] #knownspace> fredskuentz: http://gallery.me.com/anim8rfsk/100083
[19:30] #knownspace> senax: Interesting. Are the two animations identical, or are there differences I'm not seeing?
[19:31] #knownspace> Dan: I like that, Fred. Nice work!
[19:31] #knownspace> Lensman: I didn't watch "Time Tunnel" when it was on originally. Dunno if it was before my time or, more likely, was on a channel we didn't get in the small town I was living in.
[19:32] #knownspace> SeanS: twas a bbc thing... you would probably only seen it on pbs... like my intro to dr who
[19:32] #knownspace> Dan: During my time, Lens.
[19:32] #knownspace> fredskuentz: identical except for file size
[19:33] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Time Tunnel was on ABC
[19:33] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm 56. Are you older, Dan?
[19:33] #knownspace> SeanS: really
[19:33] #knownspace> fredskuentz: thanks dan!
[19:33] #knownspace> SeanS: i thought it was bbc
[19:34] #knownspace> fredskuentz: might have been where you are :)
[19:34] #knownspace> fredskuentz: but it was ABC in the USA. Friday nights. 1966.
[19:34] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, Time Tunnel was an Irwin Allen production, likr Lost in Space.
[19:34] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Or Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea.
[19:34] #knownspace> SeanS: i was born in 68 so .........
[19:34] #knownspace> Dan: Lens, I'm 55 late this year.
[19:34] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Well, TTT took place in the far future of 1968 ...
[19:35] #knownspace> Lensman: As I thought, it probably was on a channel we didn't get.
[19:35] #knownspace> fredskuentz: You didn't get ABC?
[19:35] #knownspace> Lensman: Didn't think it was that old a show.
[19:35] #knownspace> fredskuentz: yep
[19:35] #knownspace> Dan: ABC would have been channel 13 or so.
[19:35] #knownspace> fredskuentz: all the Irwin Allen stuff was from the 60s
[19:35] #knownspace> Lensman: I guess not, Fred. Is that the network that had "The Green Hornet"?
[19:35] #knownspace> senax: I actually never heard of Time Tunnel. (I'm 45.)
[19:35] #knownspace> fredskuentz: yeah, hornet and batman
[19:36] #knownspace> SeanS: 43
[19:36] #knownspace> Jim: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/BeerCup.jpg
[19:36] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I got a thumbnail@
[19:36] #knownspace> senax: oops..46. Another year went by when I wasn't looking. Not sure if it was 2010 or 2011.
[19:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Well I saw "Batman" but not those others. Maybe our local affiliate didn't carry them. Or perhaps it was that another member of my family always watched something else in those time slots. We only had one TV, after all.
[19:37] #knownspace> Dan: Some good stuff, though sorta cheap-looking by any standards set after 1980, LOL!
[19:37] #knownspace> fredskuentz: http://www.rubypenguin.com/Central30/01Timetunnel01.jpg
[19:37] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Not mine. Screen grab. :)
[19:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Or *gasp* maybe I actually didn't like "Time Tunnel", altho I can't imagine why.
[19:37] #knownspace> senax: Nice beer boot, Jim. Is that a half liter?
[19:38] #knownspace> fredskuentz: bearing an uncomfortable resemblance to the Krell complex from Forbidden Planet.
[19:38] #knownspace> Lensman: I do remember that we got 2 of the 3 major networks, but were missing one.
[19:38] #knownspace> Jim: don't know
[19:38] #knownspace> senax: I have one of those boots, but it's very thin glass at the top. Pretty fragile.
[19:39] #knownspace> fredskuentz: http://application.denofgeek.com/pics/film/forbidden.planet/03.jpg
[19:40] #knownspace> senax: Mine holds 1 liter. I don't use it often because I'm afraid of breaking it.
[19:40] #knownspace> senax: I got Forbidden Planet on DVD just a couple of months ago. Good flick.
[19:41] #knownspace> Lensman: One of the very best SF films of the fifties.
[19:41] #knownspace> Dan: One of the better '50s flicks, I agree senax.
[19:41] #knownspace> senax: Not that there were that many good ones...
[19:42] #knownspace> Dan: Depends on your standards, though. LOL!
[19:42] #knownspace> Lensman: Unfortunately that's true. That and "The Day the Earth Stood Still" are the two best, I think.
[19:43] #knownspace> Dan: I'd add "The Thing From Another World."
[19:43] #knownspace> senax: I think the 70s, strangely enough, were the heyday of SF movies.
[19:44] #knownspace> Dan: The Thing is my favorite movie of all time, the original version, that is.
[19:44] #knownspace> senax: 2001 stirred up a lot of interest in the genre that was still going when Star Wars came along.
[19:44] #knownspace> Lensman: 2001 was one of the great films of the Sixties. "Planet of the Apes" was another.
[19:45] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Dan, re the Thing, +1
[19:45] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I like the John Carpenter version too
[19:45] #knownspace> fredskuentz: haven't seen the prequel
[19:45] #knownspace> senax: I've only seen the Carpenter version.
[19:45] #knownspace> Lensman: The seventies were pretty dead for most of the era, all those anti-hero films. Until SW and all heck broke loose!
[19:45] #knownspace> SeanS: i have the prequal but have not watched it
[19:45] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I watched some of the Keanu Reeves DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL remake the other night
[19:46] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I should say 'suffered through'
[19:46] #knownspace> SeanS: why
[19:46] #knownspace> Dan: The prequel will only be the prequel to the Carpenter version. :)
[19:46] #knownspace> fredskuentz: It was on TV
[19:46] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and I don't have much to do
[19:46] #knownspace> senax: Lens, I was thinking of stuff like Silent Running, Andromeda Strain...
[19:46] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I even watched the Will Ferret LAND OF THE LOST the other night
[19:46] #knownspace> senax: ...Soylent Green...
[19:46] #knownspace> fredskuentz: that was just horrible
[19:47] #knownspace> Dan: I do like Andromeda Strain a lot, too.
[19:47] #knownspace> Lensman: The Carpenter "Thing" is about 3/4 of a Great film. Unfortunately ruined by a violently over the top last 1/4.
[19:47] #knownspace> SeanS: no argument
[19:47] #knownspace> senax: Calling Land of the Lost SF would be a stretch, in spite of the LN connection.
[19:48] #knownspace> Lensman: "Silent Running"... was enjoyable once. Maybe twice. Now I think it's just embarrassing. "Andromeda Strain" was definitely one of the best of its era. Seventies?
[19:48] #knownspace> senax: Andromeda Strain was probably Crichton's best novel too...even though it was his first.
[19:48] #knownspace> senax: Andromeda Strain was 1971 (the film, that is).
[19:48] #knownspace> Lensman: I enjoyed "Jurassic Park" and "The Great Train Robbery". Both before they were movies, and enjoyed the movies very much too.
[19:48] #knownspace> Dan: Well, LOTL the old TV series was fantasy bordering on SF. The movie version? I have a low opinion of that.
[19:49] #knownspace> Lensman: I watched the Will Ferrel movie just to see what the story was, as I've never seen the old TV series.
[19:49] #knownspace> Lensman: Great Ghu I find Ferrell irritating.
[19:50] #knownspace> senax: I remember the original LOTL series from Saturday morning TV as a kid. Thought it was crap then, and see no reason to revise my opinion.
[19:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: LOL, Lensman, if all you saw was the movie, you still don't need the story
[19:51] #knownspace> Lensman: The screen shots I've seen of the old show do not cause me to want to run out and rent it to watch, either. Altho as a Niven completist I suppose I ought to watch three episodes.
[19:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: The love interest character is the pre teen niece in the original
[19:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and the stoner the teenage nephew
[19:51] #knownspace> senax: Ferrell is from the Chevy Chase/Jerry Lewis school of comedy...he acts like an idiot while "funny" stuff happans to him. It's never appealed to me.
[19:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: the worst part of LOTL is Ferret never stops talking
[19:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I'M BEING CHASED BY A TREX
[19:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I'M RUNNING AROUND A CORNER TO GET AWAY FROM A TREX
[19:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: THE TREX IS GETTING CLOSER
[19:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: shut
[19:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: the
[19:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: frell
[19:52] #knownspace> fredskuentz: up
[19:53] #knownspace> Lensman: I enjoyed Chase in "Foul Play" and mildly so in the second movie he did with Goldie Hawn... can't remember the name. Have not enjoyed a Chase film since, despite giving him repeated chances.
[19:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and Sleestak only come out at night
[19:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and the little scientist is the GOOD guy
[19:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Seems Like Old Times
[19:53] #knownspace> Dan: Ferrell is by no means in the same class as Chevy Chase, and isn't fit to lick Jerry Lewis' footprints across a pig pen.
[19:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I didn't care for that, but I like Foul Play
[19:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and of course Caddyshack
[19:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and the first Vacation
[19:54] #knownspace> Lensman: Jerry Lewis... Well, I ain't French. 'Nuff said.
[19:54] #knownspace> Dan: Neither is Jerry.
[19:55] #knownspace> senax: Caddyshack is funny, but Rodney Dangerfield, peace be upon him, gets most of the credit. And Bill Murray, of course.'
[19:55] #knownspace> Lensman: You liked the first "Vacation"? Well.. that makes one of you.
[19:56] #knownspace> Lensman: In "Caddyshack" I wound up rooting for the "villains" 'cuz I found the "heroes" to be so obnoxious. My humor just doesn't run that way. I've never seen Rodney Dangerfield do anything I like.
[19:56] #knownspace> fredskuentz: You rooted for Judge Smails????
[19:56] #knownspace> Dan: Jerry Lewis was far funnier when teamed with Dean Martin. Kinda went downhill once color replaced B&W for movies, though.
[19:57] #knownspace> Lensman: I guess, don't remember who it was Fred.
[19:57] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Ted Baxter from Mary Tyler Moore
[19:57] #knownspace> Lensman: Only seen it once. Maybe I would like the Bill Murray bits of "Caddyshack" as stand-alone skits.
[19:57] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I don't like the Bill Murray stuff :)
[19:57] #knownspace> Lensman: The gopher was fun.
[19:57] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I like Bill in Ghostbusters
[19:58] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and Groundhog Day
[19:58] #knownspace> Lensman: I generally like Bill Murray in most of what he's done. Didn't care for "Here's Bob" or whatever that idiotic movie was, tho. "Ghostbusters" is one of my all time favorites.
[19:58] #knownspace> Lensman: I like "Stripes" a lot, too.
[19:59] #knownspace> Lensman: And "Groundhog Day" is excellent!
[20:00] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Oh, yes, Stripes is great
[20:00] #knownspace> Dan: I'm glad we like so many different things. It'd be a boring world if we all liked the same things.
[20:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Indeed it would, Dan!
[20:01] #knownspace> senax: Yup.
[20:01] #knownspace> fredskuentz: well, it would be better if nobody liked Will Ferret
[20:01] #knownspace> fredskuentz: :)
[20:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Was it Murray in "Lost in Translation"? Found that to be an exercise in ennui.
[20:02] #knownspace> Dan: I get the feeling his own mother doesn't like Will Ferret.
[20:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Can't understand the critical acclaim.
[20:02] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL!
[20:03] #knownspace> senax: Sometimes an actor can transcend his limitations in the right role. Dan Aykroyd is pretty wooden, but Elwood Blues was the perfect role for him. He's never been as good before or since. Of course that role was mainly a foil for Belushi.
[20:03] #knownspace> Dan: Every good comic needs a straight man.
[20:04] #knownspace> Dan: And sometimes the straight man is in control. Abbot & Costello?
[20:04] #knownspace> Lensman: I think Ackroyd was even better in "Ghostbusters". But then he wrote his own material!
[20:05] #knownspace> Lensman: It's said that playing the straight man takes more talent in a comic duo. I dunno, I'm not convinced myself. I think it's more of an equal partnership.
[20:06] #knownspace> senax: I did like Aykroyd in Ghostbusters. But to me Blues Brothers is one of those nearly perfect comedies...certainly a nearly perfect musical comedy. And generally I hate musicals.
[20:06] #knownspace> Dan: I agree, Lens. But usually the funny u=guy gets more attention than the straight man. Sad, but often true.
[20:06] #knownspace> senax: But I like the blues.
[20:06] #knownspace> Lensman: That's like saying Cary Grant is better than Katherine Hepburn in "Bringing Up Baby".
[20:07] #knownspace> Lensman: It's true that the comic genius of a good straight man goes unrecognized by the uninformed.
[20:07] #knownspace> Dan: Or grant being better than Leslie Carone in "Father Goose." One part won't work without the other.
[20:08] #knownspace> Lensman: I remember watching Cary Grant not so long ago in "Operation Petticoat". Now *there* was a great straight man! He does a slow burn so perfectly.
[20:09] #knownspace> Dan: That he does.
[20:09] #knownspace> Lensman: Actually I didn't care for "Petticoat" the first time I watched it. I saw it a second time with the Laser Rangers (my little videophile/home theatre group) and loved it.
[20:10] #knownspace> Lensman: Watching a movie with a group really is a different experience.
[20:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, Niven fans, I have a business chat to attend in less than an hour, and I need to prepare for that.
[20:12] #knownspace> Lensman: So good night to you all!
[20:12] #knownspace> senax: Later Lens!
[20:14] #knownspace> Dan: And I have to go to work in the morning. Don't know why I'm sleepy. 'Cept that I've been up since before dawn.
[20:14] #knownspace> Dan: GOODNIGHT!
[20:16] #knownspace> senax: Well, I think I'm the last active participant in this chat (he says to himself), so I'm outta here too.
[20:18] #knownspace> fredskuentz: harumph
[21:14] jonmanyjars has joined #knownspace
[21:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: hey jonmanyjars