July

2014-07-05 13:48:43 : <Alex_A> Hi all
2014-07-05 13:50:33 : <Alex_A> Am I early?
2014-07-05 13:52:45 : <andy> yup
2014-07-05 13:52:57 : <andy> about another hour and it will be very busy here.
2014-07-05 14:00:28 : <andy> It ain't boosterspice but I'll take it: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140702131744.htm
2014-07-05 14:00:51 : <andy> <title>Researchers regrow corneas, first known tissue grown from an adult human stem cell -- ScienceDaily</title>
2014-07-05 14:01:01 : <andy> (since we don't have a bot doing that here)
2014-07-05 14:03:17 : <Alex_A> At this rate we'll skip the organlegging stage
2014-07-05 14:04:03 : <Alex_A> Presumably these avoid rejection problems of transplants
2014-07-05 14:04:09 : <andy> Yeah. I'm okay with that.
2014-07-05 14:04:20 : <Alex_A> +1
2014-07-05 14:05:16 : <Alex_A> Vaguely connected: I'm currently watching Orphan Black S2
2014-07-05 14:06:18 : <andy> I haven't seen it - any good?
2014-07-05 14:06:26 : <andy> ...not like I need any more TV shows, though.
2014-07-05 14:10:14 : "Hippy" joined the channel.
2014-07-05 14:10:45 : <Hippy> This sis going to sound weird, or look weird if you're rading it, but I can't read well enough to join the chat todayt.
2014-07-05 14:11:12 : <Hippy> Accordingly, I won't be on for the chat unless I can sort out the text to speech option.
2014-07-05 14:11:23 : <andy> Hippy: sorry to read that!
2014-07-05 14:12:10 : <andy> I know there's a Linux distribution that has text-to-speech built in but I don't remember what it's called. :(
2014-07-05 14:12:45 : <Alex_A> Orphan Black is pretty good, but not perfect (what is?)
2014-07-05 14:12:47 : <Hippy> 'Tis a sad, but I hope temporary, shortfall in the focussing department, brought on by the insertion of a contact lens to help heal the cornea. Everything is thus theatrically blurry, leaving me ...er, reading-wise...encumbered.
2014-07-05 14:13:04 : <Hippy> Have a good one and I hope you can understand this typing.
2014-07-05 14:13:37 : <Alex_A> Lead actress is impressive - plays multiple clones
2014-07-05 14:13:57 : <Alex_A> hope you recover ok Hippy
2014-07-05 14:15:55 : <Hippy> Hi Alex I am trying text to speech
2014-07-05 14:16:18 : <Hippy> .weather 32826
2014-07-05 14:16:19 : <Outsider> KeyError: 'geonames' (file "/home/logbot/phenny/modules/weather.py", line 38, in location)
2014-07-05 14:22:46 : <andy> Outsider's ZIP code support is broken and the author isn't interested in fixing it
2014-07-05 14:23:10 : <andy> try the nearest airport's code (the international version starting with a K), which I think is KORL for you.
2014-07-05 14:26:30 : <Lensman> Hippy: Sad that you're having reading problems again. Also sad that you likely can't read this response. Hope you get better soon!
2014-07-05 14:33:42 : <Alex_A> .w EGDM
2014-07-05 14:33:43 : <Outsider> Couldn't get any definitions for EGDM.
2014-07-05 14:33:55 : <Alex_A> .weather EGDM
2014-07-05 14:33:57 : <Outsider> Cloudy, 17℃, 1003mb, Gentle breeze 7kt (↑) - EGDM 17:50Z
2014-07-05 14:34:15 : <Alex_A> that's chez mil
2014-07-05 14:34:22 : <Alex_A> moi
2014-07-05 14:35:15 : <andy> Amesbury, Wiltshire, England?
2014-07-05 14:35:23 : <andy> !weather EGDM
2014-07-05 14:35:27 : <HAL9000> Weather info for Southampton, United Kingdom (updated on 7:20 PM BST on July 05, 2014) -- Temperature: 61°F / 16°C -- Humidity: 82% -- Dew Point: 55°F / 13°C -- Wind: SSW at 8 mph / 13 km/h -- Pressure: 29.65 in / 1004 hPa (Steady) -- Conditions: Partly Cloudy -- Visibility: 6.2 miles / 10.0 kilometers -- UV: 1 out of 16 -- Clouds: (FEW) : 1700 ft / 518 m -- Yesterday's Maximum: 68°F / 20°C --
2014-07-05 14:35:31 : <HAL9000> Yesterday's Minimum: 57°F / 14°C approx. -- Yesterday's Heating Degree Days: 2 approx. -- Sunrise: 4:58 AM BST -- Sunset: 9:23 PM BST -- Moon Rise: 1:34 PM BST -- Moon Set: 12:17 AM BST -- Moon Phase: First Quarter
2014-07-05 14:35:50 : <andy> HAL9000 is a bit slower but much more informative.
2014-07-05 14:35:57 : <andy> .weather KSPG
2014-07-05 14:35:58 : <Outsider> Clear ☼, 86.0℉ (30℃), 30.10in (1016mb), Gentle breeze 8kt (↑) - KSPG 17:53Z
2014-07-05 14:39:32 : <Hippy> Testing
2014-07-05 14:39:59 : <Hippy> This is a test of the text-to-speech engine
2014-07-05 14:40:36 : <andy> do you knead someone else to type four your test?
2014-07-05 14:40:50 : <andy> homophones included intentionally.
2014-07-05 14:40:55 : <Hippy> Yes, at whcih you just succeeeded admirably
2014-07-05 14:41:17 : <Hippy> So, so long as I stay sober engouh to remember what I tuyped, this will go smoothly
2014-07-05 14:41:36 : <andy> did you get "need" or "ka need" out of that?
2014-07-05 14:41:36 : <Hippy> How is Tampa on this fine afternoon?
2014-07-05 14:42:12 : <andy> There was thunder earlier but it's gone back to being sunny again.
2014-07-05 14:42:21 : <Hippy> Same here in Orlando
2014-07-05 14:42:39 : <andy> and also both hot and humid, but that's par for the course when you live in America's penis.
2014-07-05 14:42:53 : <Hippy> You got that right
2014-07-05 14:43:10 : <Hippy> It explains why there's never been a WorldCon here
2014-07-05 14:43:24 : <Hippy> Who wants the 'America's Penis' T-shirt?
2014-07-05 14:43:57 : <andy> I don't think we have a convention on an appropriate weekend currently.
2014-07-05 14:44:17 : <Hippy> No, that's true
2014-07-05 14:44:43 : <andy> Some friends-of-friends are organizing SciCon Tampa which might be able to put in a bid in a few years, since they've picked mid/late September as their date.
2014-07-05 14:45:00 : <andy> NecronomiCon is well established but a bit too late in the year.
2014-07-05 14:45:59 : "Jim" joined the channel.
2014-07-05 14:46:02 : <Hippy> Yeah. All the WorldCon's seem to be in the torrid parts of the year. Probably makes it wasie for flightsbut not in my case. I'm a storm magnet
2014-07-05 14:46:07 : <Hippy> Hi, Jim
2014-07-05 14:46:33 : <Lensman> Eye halve a spelling chequer / It came with my pea sea / It plainly marques four my revue / Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
2014-07-05 14:47:03 : <Alex_A> WorldCon is in London this year
2014-07-05 14:47:11 : <Hippy> Cool, Lens. In my case, my vision is tooo blurry to rad, so I have the text-to-speech on.
2014-07-05 14:47:17 : <Lensman> Eye strike a key and type a word / And weight four it two say / Weather eye am wrong oar write / It shows me strait a weigh.
2014-07-05 14:47:28 : <Hippy> Yes, but London in the hot part of the UK year
2014-07-05 14:47:45 : <Jim> .weather KEKN
2014-07-05 14:47:46 : <Outsider> Clear ☼, 75.2℉ (24℃), 30.31in (1023mb), Light air 3kt (↻) - KEKN 17:51Z
2014-07-05 14:47:51 : <andy> Next year it's in Washington state somewhere. Tacoma, I think.
2014-07-05 14:47:52 : <Jim> perfect
2014-07-05 14:47:56 : <Alex_A> true but never gets really hot here
2014-07-05 14:48:02 : <Hippy> Why don't we hava aWorldCon in Rejkjavik in February?
2014-07-05 14:48:06 : <Hippy> Spokane
2014-07-05 14:48:17 : <Lensman> As soon as a mist ache is maid / It nose bee fore two long / And eye can put the error rite / Its rare lea ever wrong.
2014-07-05 14:48:36 : <Hippy> This is good nes, Lens
2014-07-05 14:48:39 : <Alex_A> Summer Glau is at a con in London today
2014-07-05 14:48:57 : <Alex_A> Wish I found out sooner :/
2014-07-05 14:49:10 : <Lensman> Rejkajavik in February? Well, nobody will be complaining about the heat... unless they go to a hot springs spa...
2014-07-05 14:49:12 : <Jim> What is Summer Glau doing at a written media Sci-Fi convention?
2014-07-05 14:49:47 : <Jim> a con or the con?
2014-07-05 14:49:52 : <Lensman> Eye have run this poem threw it / I am shore your pleased two no / Its letter perfect awl the weigh / My chequer tolled me sew.
2014-07-05 14:49:59 : <Alex_A> No different con
2014-07-05 14:50:09 : <Jim> ok
2014-07-05 14:50:15 : <Alex_A> London Film and Comic-Con
2014-07-05 14:50:30 : <Hippy> Ah, now I see, AlexA
2014-07-05 14:50:38 : <Hippy> ...so to speak
2014-07-05 14:50:43 : <Jim> So, the London version of San Diego Comic Con.
2014-07-05 14:50:59 : <Jim> Has Larry been in yet?
2014-07-05 14:51:05 : <Alex_A> Our cons are much smaller
2014-07-05 14:51:21 : <Lensman> "I see, I see," said the blind man to the deaf mule as he walked off the edge of the cliff.
2014-07-05 14:51:33 : <Lensman> A bit of graveyard humor there for Hippy.
2014-07-05 14:51:42 : <Hippy> How apt, Lens :)
2014-07-05 14:51:47 : <Lensman> Jim: No.
2014-07-05 14:52:17 : <Alex_A> LFCC isn't residential
2014-07-05 14:52:22 : <Hippy> I had thought of a sketch involving a blind man and a dyslexic playing 'I Spy'. Then today I thought that a man with aphasia sits down to help themn out
2014-07-05 14:52:22 : <Jim> I am curious (not yellow); how much does a hotel room cost per night at the London Film and Comic-Con.
2014-07-05 14:52:30 : <Alex_A> just one big hall
2014-07-05 14:52:59 : <Alex_A> .g LFCC
2014-07-05 14:53:00 : <Outsider> Alex_A: http://www.lfcc.edu/
2014-07-05 14:53:07 : <Lensman> Well, that's a joke my dad used to tell. I always wondered why it specified a mule. Perhaps I mis-heard and it's supposed to be "deaf mute"?
2014-07-05 14:53:10 : <Alex_A> that's not it
2014-07-05 14:53:25 : <Alex_A> .g Showmasters
2014-07-05 14:53:26 : <Outsider> Alex_A: http://www.showmasters.us/
2014-07-05 14:54:14 : <Jim> Unhandled ErrorError DetailsFile\tError \tCould not allocate space for object 'dbo.EventLog'.'PK_EventLogMaster' in database 'R1378_test' because the 'PRIMARY' filegroup is full. Create disk space by deleting unneeded files, dropping objects in the filegroup, adding additional files to the filegroup, or setting autogrowth on for existing files in the filegroup.
2014-07-05 14:54:40 : <Lensman> Hippy: When you say "No WorldCon" here, where is "Here" ?
2014-07-05 14:54:48 : <Hippy> Florida
2014-07-05 14:55:13 : <Hippy> Orlando is really well set up for conventions, too
2014-07-05 14:55:19 : <Jim> What does Florida have that Oz does not?
2014-07-05 14:55:20 : <Lensman> Hmmm, the bid for Orlando failed, didn't it.
2014-07-05 14:55:29 : <Hippy> Jim, you're such a romantic...
2014-07-05 14:55:39 : <Hippy> Yes, I think you're right, Jim.
2014-07-05 14:55:42 : <Hippy> I mean, Lens
2014-07-05 14:55:50 : <Hippy> This is harder to do than I thought :)
2014-07-05 14:56:20 : <Hippy> Jim, lots more conetion centres here in Florida. Aus just has very committed and well-organised fans :)
2014-07-05 14:56:45 : <Hippy> What cities are up for the 2016 Cn?
2014-07-05 14:57:21 : <Lensman> Kansas City in 2016!
2014-07-05 14:57:38 : <Hippy> That's who I voted for!
2014-07-05 14:58:10 : <Alex_A> http://www.londonfilmandcomiccon.com/
2014-07-05 14:58:35 : <Alex_A> I can't see Summer on the bill after all
2014-07-05 14:58:48 : <Lensman> Looks like Kansas City is finally going to win, after three failed attempts, mostly by default. Only a belated bid from China as the competition, and it doesn't appear Bejing is pursuing the bid actively.
2014-07-05 14:58:55 : <Alex_A> Stan Lee & Carrie Fisher are there tho
2014-07-05 14:59:12 : <Hippy> China?? Egad
2014-07-05 14:59:26 : <Hippy> I can't see them wining until they fre up ther INternet
2014-07-05 14:59:27 : <Lensman> The "by default" may involve a polite unwritten agreement among SMOFS to not have any competing bid, tho.
2014-07-05 15:00:22 : <Alex_A> SMOFS - reminds me of the Illuminati game :)
2014-07-05 15:00:22 : <Hippy> Well, LonCon can still acccept bids, though I think the rules still say two out of three cons must be hlld in North America, whcih sort of gives KS th
2014-07-05 15:00:29 : <Hippy> IKC the edfe.
2014-07-05 15:00:44 : <Hippy> What show is this Summer from?
2014-07-05 15:00:57 : <Lensman> Hippy... when you said "This is harder to do" I flashed on the scene in "Life of Brian" where Brian paints "ROMANS GO HOME" in protest on the wall. He is caught by a Roman soldier, who forces him to correct his very bad Latin grammar, then repeat it 100 times...
2014-07-05 15:01:32 : <Lensman> Not that this has much to do with your predicament. My mind works in strange and wonderful ways.
2014-07-05 15:02:30 : <Jim> Lensman, what does SMOFS stand for?
2014-07-05 15:02:36 : <Lensman> Does the rotation schedule still say that North America must have 2 out of 3 WorldCons? I thought the rules now just said that every WorldCon had to be at least 500 miles away from the last.
2014-07-05 15:03:37 : <Lensman> Jim: It's a sarcasic or ironic term meaning "Secret Masters of Fandom". Ironic in that Fandom is too much like herding cats to have "masters", and that those who try are anything but secret.
2014-07-05 15:04:24 : <Lensman> Basically, to SMOF (verb form) means to engage in fannish politics.
2014-07-05 15:04:39 : <Jim> This link may be of interest. http://www.wired.com/2014/06/the-new-quantum-reality/
2014-07-05 15:05:30 : <Lensman> Oops, I should have typed SMOFs... plural of SMOF. Not SMOFS.
2014-07-05 15:07:23 : <Alex_A> Talking of Python, their "last ever" live shows are in London right now
2014-07-05 15:07:44 : <Hippy> HO are they replacing Graham Chapman?
2014-07-05 15:07:55 : <Alex_A> Last one will be simulcast on UK TV and in cinemas
2014-07-05 15:08:00 : <Lensman> Yes, at least according to the Wiki article on WorldCon, I was right: Each con must be at least 500 miles from the last; there is no other restriction.
2014-07-05 15:08:13 : <Alex_A> he's appearing in clips I believe
2014-07-05 15:08:21 : <Jim> I liked the YouTube video where Mick Jagger claims that the Pythons are just a nostalgia act.
2014-07-05 15:08:22 : <Hippy> Ah, good.
2014-07-05 15:08:43 : <Lensman> Rules have always favored overseas bids. Any overseas city could bid in any year, back in the days of the three-zone North American rotation.
2014-07-05 15:08:46 : <Alex_A> Is it going to shown in US?
2014-07-05 15:09:37 : <Hippy> Ah, Lens, then that must've been amended. Oh, so it's a new rule then, Lens? It always seemed to me that North .american bids were favoured
2014-07-05 15:10:33 : <Lensman> Hippy: Yes, the three-zone rotation is nearly as outdated as hippies are. LOL
2014-07-05 15:10:47 : <Hippy> LOL!
AFK to attend to idiot canine
2014-07-05 15:11:51 : <Jim> Please explain the old three-zone rotation rule?
2014-07-05 15:11:53 : <Lensman> Okay, I'll bite, why did it seem like North American bids were favored? Any city in NA could bid only once every three years; any overseas city could bid any and every year.
2014-07-05 15:12:14 : <Alex_A> The Hippies seem to come out every summer solstice - I live near Stonehenge :)
2014-07-05 15:13:42 : <Lensman> The three-zone rotation, now obsolete, was that North America was divided into three zones: East, Central, West. In successive years, only cities in one zone could bid for the WorldCon. But overseas cities could make a competing bid in any year. This progression continued every three years, even if a foreign city won.
2014-07-05 15:14:28 : <Hippy> Ah...it's the sort of complex thing that SF fans delight in.
2014-07-05 15:14:45 : <Hippy> Plus Australia aznd theHugos bot use preferential voting systems
2014-07-05 15:14:54 : <Lensman> Part of the reason the three-zone rotation was adopted was to give cities in the "Midwest" (which is American for "central states") a chance to win. Otherwise, we'd never be able to outbid such cities as Los Angeles or Boston.
2014-07-05 15:14:55 : <Jim> I would like a WorldCon in Colorado.
2014-07-05 15:15:05 : <Hippy> Please excuse my typos :)
2014-07-05 15:15:19 : <Hippy> Too late, Jim
2014-07-05 15:15:24 : <Hippy> 2008
2014-07-05 15:15:40 : <Jim> Weed was not legal in 2008.
2014-07-05 15:15:48 : <Lensman> Love means never having to say you're sorry for typos!
2014-07-05 15:16:00 : <Hippy> So does Lvoe
2014-07-05 15:17:07 : <Lensman> And there has always been a strong tendency among those who actually vote for WorldCons to vote for overseas bids, to give the "underdog" a fighting chance.
2014-07-05 15:17:28 : <Hippy> That would explain Yokohama
2014-07-05 15:18:01 : <Lensman> Note you have to pay an extra fee... is it still $40, Hippy?... to vote in WorldCon site selection, so those who want to vote have to want to pretty badly. or else must be too rich to worry about such trifles.
2014-07-05 15:18:26 : <Jim> Does China have enough SF fans to warrant a WorldCon?
2014-07-05 15:18:41 : <Hippy> You have to be a supporting member of the Con. That costs around $80 now
2014-07-05 15:19:30 : <Lensman> Jim: We honestly don't know. There isn't much communication with Chinese fans... behind the Great Firewall of China is part of the problem, and I guess they just don't participate much in international fandom.
2014-07-05 15:19:34 : <Hippy> No, but I didn't think Yolohama did either. I think the travel restrictions etc will sour Chinas bid - but accommodation would be cheap, though. A Macao casino would cost very little
2014-07-05 15:20:07 : <Lensman> The guess-- note just a guess-- is that China is bidding just to "learn the ropes", and will make a serious bid when they think they know enough to mount one.
2014-07-05 15:20:11 : "Larry" joined the channel.
2014-07-05 15:20:19 : <Jim> Has Las Vegas ever hosted a WorldCon?
2014-07-05 15:20:24 : <Hippy> Hi, Larry!
2014-07-05 15:20:34 : <Hippy> Not so far as I know, Jim
2014-07-05 15:20:39 : <Lensman> Hi Larry!
2014-07-05 15:20:50 : <Jim> My screen colors are acting wild; Hi Larry.
2014-07-05 15:20:53 : <Hippy> Reno did in 2012
2014-07-05 15:21:14 : <Lensman> Another problem China is going to have is the massive air pollution in its major cities. Bejing isn't where I would want to attend a WorldCon, even if it wasn't competing against my own city.
2014-07-05 15:21:21 : <Jim> Got to get the legalized prostitution outside of Clark County?
2014-07-05 15:21:21 : <Larry> Hi all. Marilyn has been home since Monday. She can get around with a walker, a little.
2014-07-05 15:21:39 : <Lensman> Not that I necessarily am looking forward to my home town once again hosting a WorldCon.
2014-07-05 15:21:44 : <Jim> My Mother uses an adult stoller.
2014-07-05 15:21:47 : <Hippy> I am glad to hear that, Larry
2014-07-05 15:21:53 : <Jim> Yes.
2014-07-05 15:21:54 : <Lensman> Larry: Wonderful to hear Fuzzy Pink is finally home from the hospital!
2014-07-05 15:22:19 : <Hippy> Send her our regards, Larry
2014-07-05 15:22:45 : <Lensman> Last time we hosted a WoldCon, the local fan club shrank down to 15 members. Too much work, to much infighting. Many people gafiated after that.
2014-07-05 15:23:01 : <Larry> She hadn't been home in three months. Mostly on her back. She's still marooned downstairs: can't handle steps.
2014-07-05 15:23:29 : <Hippy> Three months?!
2014-07-05 15:23:32 : <Lensman> "Gafiate", modified form of GAFIA, meaning "Getting Away From It All", meaning to leave fandom for the mundane world, and to cease fanac (fan activities).
2014-07-05 15:23:41 : <Larry> Worldcon: Los Angeles has always hosted a good one.
's problems are now back in proportion
2014-07-05 15:24:03 : <Hippy> Are you still going to London, Larry?
2014-07-05 15:25:13 : <Lensman> Jim: Re a Colorado WorldCon: I was at Denvention II in, I think, 1980. My second WorldCon.
2014-07-05 15:25:21 : <Larry> I still think I'm going to London, but admit I haven't made plane reservations. I do have a room to share with my nephew.
2014-07-05 15:27:35 : <Alex_A> I'm in UK but haven't really thought about attending London WorldCon
2014-07-05 15:27:39 : <Larry> I remember n Ozarkon that fell apart, never quite cancelled but never happened, and nobody told the GOHs--me and Narilyn. We showed up and, nothing, The previous worldcon committee had all fafiated.
2014-07-05 15:28:11 : <Alex_A> Oops!
2014-07-05 15:28:18 : <Larry> and that was in St. Louis.
2014-07-05 15:28:30 : <Lensman> Larry: I remember that story you told... in NIVEN'S LAWS, I think? Nobody bothered to inform the GOH the con had been canceled...
2014-07-05 15:28:49 : <Hippy> God God!
2014-07-05 15:28:52 : <Larry> Yeah, Lens.
2014-07-05 15:28:53 : <Lensman> But you managed to have a great time that weekend dispite the collapse!
2014-07-05 15:29:25 : <Larry> yes. But now I can match any story--except John Brunner's.
2014-07-05 15:29:40 : <Lensman> "Fafiated". I wonder if anyone here other than Larry and I know what that means?
2014-07-05 15:29:44 : <Hippy> Well, don't try for that one, Lary!
2014-07-05 15:29:52 : <Hippy> I thnk I do
2014-07-05 15:30:06 : <Lensman> Okay, I'll bite: What is the John Brunner story?
2014-07-05 15:30:30 : <Larry> I don't know. Maybe Brunner's is the way to go. Lens, he died as GOH.
2014-07-05 15:30:49 : <Lensman> Oh. Um. Er... sorry I asked.
2014-07-05 15:31:18 : <Hippy> A laudable gola, Larry, but at least wait until the WorldCon is on the Moon
2014-07-05 15:31:35 : <Lensman> Alpha Centauri.
2014-07-05 15:31:46 : <Hippy> Ringworld!
2014-07-05 15:31:58 : <Lensman> Now you're talkin'!
2014-07-05 15:32:07 : <Alex_A> Didn't Patrick Troughton (2nd Doctor) die at a con? I've heard rumours about what he was doing at the time...
2014-07-05 15:32:37 : <Lensman> But you don't want to know what the travel fare is to Ringworld. All that delta-V you have to pay for...
2014-07-05 15:32:45 : <Larry> no fear. I won't be GOH for some time, and I plan to hang on until pictures are sent from Pluto. I've been at JPL for the flybys of every planet.
2014-07-05 15:33:10 : <Hippy> When is that scheduled for?
2014-07-05 15:33:17 : <Alex_A> Cool Larry
2014-07-05 15:33:29 : <Lensman> Very kewl.
2014-07-05 15:33:32 : <Larry> next year.
2014-07-05 15:33:41 : <Alex_A> 2015 IIRC
2014-07-05 15:33:49 : <Hippy> Fantastic!
2014-07-05 15:33:55 : <Alex_A> .wik New horizons
2014-07-05 15:33:56 : <Outsider> "New Horizons is a NASA space probe launched to study the dwarf planet Pluto, its moons and one or two Kuiper Belt objects, depending on which are in position to be explored." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_horizons
2014-07-05 15:34:30 : <Hippy> When did they launch that? I've never heard of it
2014-07-05 15:34:33 : <Lensman> When was New Horizons launched?
2014-07-05 15:34:36 : <Jim> .wik John Brunner
2014-07-05 15:34:37 : <Outsider> "Sir John Brunner, 1st Baronet (1842–1919), a.k.a. John Tomlinson Brunner, British industrialist and Liberal Member of Parliament" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brunner
2014-07-05 15:34:39 : <Lensman> Jinx, Hippy.
2014-07-05 15:34:58 : <Jim> .wik John Brunner (novelist)
2014-07-05 15:34:59 : <Outsider> "John Kilian Houston Brunner (24 September 1934 – 26 August 1995) was a prolific British author of science fiction novels and stories." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brunner_(novelist)
2014-07-05 15:35:29 : <Lensman> Jan 2006 launch, to answer our question.
2014-07-05 15:35:53 : <Hippy> I just finished 'Stand on Zanzibar' a couple of weeks back. Ah, thanks, Lens. Nine years is pretty qwuick for a probe
2014-07-05 15:36:31 : <Lensman> That's what I was thinking too, Hippy. Only 9 years to Pluto... without using a NERVA rocket as in "Wait it Out"!
2014-07-05 15:38:17 : <Larry> I do believe the probe uses an advanced plasma jet. I'm not up to speed on that, will have to research it.
2014-07-05 15:38:51 : <Hippy> Properly aimed, it cold probably catch the first Vloyager probe
2014-07-05 15:39:04 : <fredskuentz> Greets, legal entities
2014-07-05 15:39:13 : <Lensman> Brunner is one of those writers I keep meaning to get around to reading someday. Well, perhaps I should make that "someday" soon, as I'm not getting any younger.
2014-07-05 15:39:14 : <Hippy> Hi there, Fred
2014-07-05 15:39:26 : <Jim> me too
2014-07-05 15:40:08 : <Hippy> 'Stand On Zanzibar' is a hard slog, but there are many interesting its to it, including one nice bit about the slow pace of technology
2014-07-05 15:40:31 : <Alex_A> Pluto Flyby July next year
2014-07-05 15:40:40 : <Larry> if you're starting Brunner, Stand on Zanzibar is good. I'd avoid The Sheep Look Up. John sent me a manuscript of that, and I quite early. Too downbeat.
2014-07-05 15:40:41 : <Lensman> Altho "Dystopian New Wave" is three words that tend to turn me off of wanting to read a novel.
2014-07-05 15:40:55 : <fredskuentz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Troughton#Death
2014-07-05 15:41:24 : <fredskuentz> For Larry, from earlier: "When googling for "Gw'oth Ol't'ro" the results for Gwineth Paltrow show up, is that a coincidence? :)"
2014-07-05 15:41:36 : <Hippy> Hmm. All that was hard to follow by text-to-speech
2014-07-05 15:41:49 : <Alex_A> I watched a BBC documentary on Voyager 1&2 recently - didn't notice Larry in ALL scenes but didn't know you were there
AFK for certain purposes
2014-07-05 15:42:01 : <Larry> coincidence, yes, fred.
2014-07-05 15:42:59 : <Lensman> Hippy: Fred tried to look up a Gw'oth (the icy world sea dwellers from the OF WORLDS novels) on the Internet, and got Gwenneth Paltrow. He asked if that's a coincidence? LOL
2014-07-05 15:43:24 : <Larry> I need reminder. What means AFK?
2014-07-05 15:43:29 : <Alex_A> NH was a very fast launch - biggest Altas 5 (extra boosters and an additional stage)
2014-07-05 15:43:30 : <fredskuentz> Actually I think it's Hippy that asked that in the first place, maybe yesteerday
2014-07-05 15:43:45 : <fredskuentz> it just scrolled off so I lost the cite
2014-07-05 15:43:56 : <Lensman> AFK = Away From Keyboard = BRB = Be Right Back
2014-07-05 15:44:09 : <Alex_A> what Lens said
2014-07-05 15:44:29 : <Lensman> Well actually not quite the same. AFK may suggest a longer period of absence.
2014-07-05 15:44:51 : <Alex_A> Larry: working on any fiction right now?
2014-07-05 15:45:45 : <Lensman> If NH used a plasma thruster, I'd think that would make more of a difference than using bigger boosters. But I could be wrong.
2014-07-05 15:45:56 : <Larry> some stories are in collaborators' hands. I'm writing down my dreams, expect little reaction, but got to keep active somehow.
2014-07-05 15:46:09 : <fredskuentz> Larry, reading back, glad Marilyn is home! I hope you have visiting home care for the nonce.
2014-07-05 15:46:43 : <Larry> we have visiting nurses, yes. also machines.
2014-07-05 15:46:51 : <fredskuentz> good
2014-07-05 15:47:12 : <fredskuentz> I did a lot of caregiver work
2014-07-05 15:47:15 : <fredskuentz> don't be proud
2014-07-05 15:47:21 : <fredskuentz> accept any and all reasonable help
2014-07-05 15:47:42 : <Hippy> And back. Let us just say, if I were a thrint, I'd be brushing my teeth about now
2014-07-05 15:48:06 : <fredskuentz> "If I were a thrint, I'd be brushing my teeth about now"
2014-07-05 15:48:17 : <Hippy> Yes
2014-07-05 15:48:28 : <Hippy> It's a 'World of Ptavvs' reference
2014-07-05 15:48:34 : <Lensman> +1 for Fred
2014-07-05 15:48:59 : <Hippy> Oh, sorry. Was that not well-typed?
2014-07-05 15:49:11 : <fredskuentz> no, it was fine
2014-07-05 15:49:12 : <Hippy> This thing is reading your stuff, but not what I type
2014-07-05 15:49:20 : <fredskuentz> your phrasing asked us to say it
2014-07-05 15:49:26 : <fredskuentz> and so I repeated it, after you
2014-07-05 15:49:28 : <fredskuentz> :)
2014-07-05 15:49:32 : <Lensman> Hippy: I understood every word, but don't remember the reference. Hopefully not projectile vomiting!
2014-07-05 15:49:49 : <Hippy> Something similar, Lens.
2014-07-05 15:49:54 : <Alex_A> For those into Space stuff: Esa' s Rosetta comet orbited/Lander rendezvous is next month
2014-07-05 15:50:21 : <Alex_A> .wik Rosetta spacecraft
2014-07-05 15:50:22 : <Outsider> "Rosetta is a robotic spacecraft built and launched by the European Space Agency to perform a detailed study of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_spacecraft
2014-07-05 15:50:33 : <Lensman> Hippy: Well, my sympathies, and my admiration at your dedication to stay here dispite obviously severe difficulties on your part!
2014-07-05 15:50:34 : <Hippy> Greenberg is remembering when Kzanol was first shown to his relatives, and ...no, maybe you should look that up
2014-07-05 15:51:05 : <Hippy> It would take a lot more than blurry vision to make me miss this!
2014-07-05 15:51:55 : <fredskuentz> meesa blurry too today
2014-07-05 15:52:17 : <Lensman> Hippy: Oh, I remember that scene quite vividly. I was just trying to translate that into Human terms.
2014-07-05 15:52:20 : <Hippy> Oh. Sad to hear that, Fred
2014-07-05 15:52:23 : <fredskuentz> but at least the medication for the blurry vision is making me dizzy
2014-07-05 15:53:00 : <Alex_A> I fear my lenses are getting harder - switching from tablet to TV can be blurry at night :/
2014-07-05 15:53:02 : <Hippy> I hope you succeeded, Lens.
2014-07-05 15:53:21 : <Lensman> Hippy: Ick.
2014-07-05 15:53:38 : <fredskuentz> ack
2014-07-05 15:53:43 : <fredskuentz> just got email spam
2014-07-05 15:53:44 : <fredskuentz> I swear:
2014-07-05 15:53:49 : <fredskuentz> "End blurry vision"
2014-07-05 15:54:13 : <Hippy> That's a little creepy. Is the chat being monitored by nefarious powers?
2014-07-05 15:54:33 : <Hippy> Has the NSA gone all direct marketing on our arses?
2014-07-05 15:54:39 : <Lensman> Yeah, apparently the NSA isn't merely reading our e-mails, they're instantly selling the info to spammers!
2014-07-05 15:54:42 : <fredskuentz> I suspect it's just silly humans noting patterns
2014-07-05 15:54:49 : <fredskuentz> but Facebook actually does this
2014-07-05 15:55:02 : <Alex_A> Larry: do you have good recall of your dreams? I find they're very hard to "keep hold of" after waking
2014-07-05 15:55:03 : <fredskuentz> you'll say something non standard in facebook chats
2014-07-05 15:55:14 : <Lensman> LOL! Hippy and I are twice Jinxed today.
2014-07-05 15:55:22 : <fredskuentz> and get targeted ads, often within minutes
2014-07-05 15:55:47 : <Hippy> That's the whole point of Facebook, though
2014-07-05 15:56:05 : <fredskuentz> they also send me ads from Shapeways (a 3D printing bureau) featuring models that I built ...
2014-07-05 15:56:26 : <Hippy> LOL! That's classic, Fred!
2014-07-05 15:56:33 : <Alex_A> I have FB but rarely use it. Twitter is only social media I use regularly
2014-07-05 15:56:41 : <fredskuentz> holy crap
2014-07-05 15:56:42 : <fredskuentz> "American Apparel issued a public apology Thursday after the company posted a stylized picture to its Tumblr page of the space shuttle Challenger disaster thinking it was fireworks."
2014-07-05 15:56:53 : <fredskuentz> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-american-apparel-sorry-for-using-...
2014-07-05 15:57:23 : <Lensman> I've seen discussion on other forums regarding targeted ads that pop up regarding what we're currently discussing. This is the first time for a "chat client" chat, tho. Perhaps just coincidence? Or an indication Fred has a virus on his 'puter that's reporting to a spambot?
2014-07-05 15:57:25 : <fredskuentz> "one of our international social media employees who was born after the tragedy and was unaware of the event"
is appalled
2014-07-05 15:57:37 : <fredskuentz> neither lens
2014-07-05 15:57:45 : <fredskuentz> facebook is hooked in
2014-07-05 15:57:49 : <fredskuentz> happens all the time
2014-07-05 15:58:42 : <fredskuentz> and the incidence of the shapeways ads being my model is "way more often than not" which rules out coincidence
2014-07-05 15:59:16 : <Hippy> Larry, do you get Amazon ads telling you your latest book is out?
2014-07-05 15:59:30 : <Lensman> Fred: I presume, adding insult to injury, that Shapeways is not paying you royalties on your designs?
2014-07-05 15:59:35 : <Alex_A> big oops. That image doesn't look anything like fireworks though
2014-07-05 15:59:46 : <fredskuentz> Lens, Shapeways doesn't work that way
2014-07-05 15:59:50 : <Larry> I don't have good recall of dreams, not dependably. I hope to develop the habit of writing them down quick.
2014-07-05 16:00:27 : <Alex_A> Thanks Larry
2014-07-05 16:00:48 : <Hippy> Narrating them to your phone might be quicker. I know I trtied the ol' 'dream journal ' method, but by the time I put the light on, put my glases on, got the notepad etc it was time to go to work.
2014-07-05 16:01:08 : <Alex_A> IIRC a lot of Lovecraft' s writing was based on his dreams
2014-07-05 16:01:20 : <Lensman> I've read that if you keep a dream journal, you can develop the ability to recall dreams much better. Dunno, I've never tried that myself. Personally, I very rarely remember dreams, and when I do, they are almost always nightmares.
2014-07-05 16:01:21 : <Hippy> However, it is a favourite tool of 'literary fiction' writers
2014-07-05 16:01:38 : <fredskuentz> lol, I wonder if a recording of dreams would be gibberish, like the old joke where the writing down of them reads back as nonsensical
2014-07-05 16:01:45 : <Lensman> Used to remember dreams a lot more when I was younger.
2014-07-05 16:01:56 : <Alex_A> Me too lens
2014-07-05 16:02:26 : <Lensman> I had several dreams which repeated frequently.
2014-07-05 16:02:56 : <Alex_A> I seem to have a few "dream places" I revisit. when I recall one dream it triggers recall of these places
2014-07-05 16:03:02 : <Jim> I have dreams where I have to go to the bathroom; I wake up having to go to the bathroom.
2014-07-05 16:03:22 : <Hippy> How literal.
2014-07-05 16:03:29 : <Jim> Yes.
2014-07-05 16:03:52 : <fredskuentz> I had a dream where I ate a giant marshmellon and when I woke up half my pillow was gone
2014-07-05 16:04:02 : <fredskuentz> (yes, old OLD joke)
2014-07-05 16:04:02 : <Hippy> Metaphors? We don't need no steenkin' metaphors
2014-07-05 16:04:07 : <Alex_A> lol Fred
2014-07-05 16:04:33 : <fredskuentz> hey, I watched a lot of bad science fiction last weekend
2014-07-05 16:04:37 : <fredskuentz> free HBO preview
2014-07-05 16:04:47 : <Alex_A> had lots of dreams of flying as a kid
2014-07-05 16:04:49 : <Hippy> Of what?
2014-07-05 16:04:50 : <Lensman> I think the strangest for me is thinking, just after I woke up, about an incident at a place where I used to work... and then abruptly realizing that I never actually worked there, it was a series of dreams all set in the same place! Now that's disturbing...
2014-07-05 16:04:51 : <fredskuentz> one was PROMETHEUS
2014-07-05 16:04:58 : <Alex_A> which was cool
2014-07-05 16:05:04 : <fredskuentz> which sure felt like RINGWORLD to me
2014-07-05 16:05:13 : <fredskuentz> with Charlize Theron as Nessus
2014-07-05 16:05:30 : <fredskuentz> and I watched OBLIVION
2014-07-05 16:05:34 : <fredskuentz> (should have known better)
2014-07-05 16:05:56 : <fredskuentz> and PACIFIC RIM
2014-07-05 16:06:08 : <Hippy> Ah, that last sounds interesting
2014-07-05 16:06:19 : <Alex_A> I've had a dream within a dream which was disturbing
2014-07-05 16:06:21 : <fredskuentz> sadly it was not
2014-07-05 16:06:41 : <Alex_A> I liked Pacific Rim
2014-07-05 16:06:43 : <Lensman> Exactly once in my life, I semi-woke into a half-asleep state where I realized I was dreaming, and told myself that if I really was, then I could do anything I wished... like fly! And so I did. That was glorious! Unfortunately I've never been able to recapture that. :( <--Hippy that is a frowning face.
2014-07-05 16:07:17 : <fredskuentz> and WOLVERINE
2014-07-05 16:07:36 : <Alex_A> Lucid dreaming - happened to me a few times
2014-07-05 16:07:37 : <Larry> the makers misunderstood Ringworld. If you open the top of a spinning ring, as with PROMETHEUS, the air escapes unless it's HUGE.
2014-07-05 16:07:43 : <fredskuentz> I quit LIFE OF 3.141592654 early
2014-07-05 16:08:31 : <fredskuentz> The Prometheus makers sure reminded me of PAK Protectors, Larry
2014-07-05 16:08:32 : <Lensman> I was quite disappointed with "Pacific Rim". The other Laser Rangers raved about how great it was. Seriously, using mecha to fight giant monsters? They don't have shoulder-mounted missle launchers? Even worse was fighting them UNDERWATER. What, they have no submarines and no torpedos?
2014-07-05 16:09:00 : <Larry> Life of Pi was worth seeing.
2014-07-05 16:09:10 : <fredskuentz> Lensman, there are guys on youtube that do a series called EVERYTHING WRONG WITH XXX MOVIE IN XX MINUTES
2014-07-05 16:09:21 : <fredskuentz> it's well worth watching their take on Pacific Rim
2014-07-05 16:09:21 : <Hippy> Oh, well, I shall keep that in mind, Larry
2014-07-05 16:09:32 : <Lensman> "Life of Pi" is perhaps the best movie I've seen in recent years.
2014-07-05 16:10:04 : <Lensman> Wonderful! Inspired, inspiring, fantasmagorical.
2014-07-05 16:10:28 : <Hippy> I saw 'Divergent' on the weekend - and now know why there is so much about YA fiction in cons these days. It's where the money is
2014-07-05 16:10:40 : <Alex_A> I bought into the concept that the Mechs were only weapon cable of fighting the monsters in OR
2014-07-05 16:10:56 : <Alex_A> PR
2014-07-05 16:11:14 : <fredskuentz> Alex, they say in the movie that there had never been more than one monster at a time before
2014-07-05 16:11:24 : <fredskuentz> and they had dozens, maybe hundreds of Mechs
2014-07-05 16:11:36 : <fredskuentz> and the monsters *always* come from the same place
2014-07-05 16:11:44 : <Lensman> Alex: Yeah, that's one of those stories where either you buy into the basic concept-- "Willing suspension of disbelief"-- or else you don't. Sadly, I didn't, so was not able to enjoy the film as others did.
2014-07-05 16:12:02 : <fredskuentz> why the TANJ don't we build a gigantic cannon installation aimed at the rift?
2014-07-05 16:12:50 : <fredskuentz> How did they possibly wipe out our Mech force?
2014-07-05 16:12:51 : <Lensman> Fred: Or just a few depth charge dispensors hooked to a sensor that sensed when something large was moving in the rift.
2014-07-05 16:12:58 : <Alex_A> Good points Fred. Fortunately they didn't occur to me during viewing
2014-07-05 16:13:17 : <fredskuentz> take off and nuke the site from orbit
2014-07-05 16:13:20 : <fredskuentz> it's the only way to be sure
2014-07-05 16:13:25 : <Lensman> :)
2014-07-05 16:13:51 : <Alex_A> well they did nuke it in the end :)
2014-07-05 16:13:59 : <fredskuentz> oh
2014-07-05 16:14:11 : <fredskuentz> why is there a bar code on the monsters that lets them back in?
2014-07-05 16:14:18 : <fredskuentz> why would a monster ever go back in????
2014-07-05 16:14:33 : <fredskuentz> the mission is 'stomp or die'
2014-07-05 16:14:52 : <Alex_A> The gate opening was triggered by their DNA
2014-07-05 16:14:57 : <fredskuentz> the threshold needs to be one way
2014-07-05 16:15:16 : <fredskuentz> like Maxwell's demon in Larry's Unfinished Story
2014-07-05 16:15:20 : <Alex_A> I guess the tech works both ways
2014-07-05 16:15:23 : <Larry> I watched it. I didn't quite buy it, but my suspension of disbelief is cheap.
2014-07-05 16:15:41 : <fredskuentz> Larry, I mean this as a compliment
2014-07-05 16:15:43 : <Lensman> One of the Rangers tried to defend the movie when I pointed out that the army could use shoulder-mounted rocket/missle launchers to fight the monsters. He retorted that the monsters were immune to missiles. I pointed out that the movie showed the mechas firing missiles, which obviously did hurt them. I guess he wasn't paying attention?
2014-07-05 16:15:59 : <fredskuentz> your suspension of disbelief probably NEEDS to be cheap
2014-07-05 16:16:12 : <fredskuentz> or you'd end up killing your own ideas before you worked them out
2014-07-05 16:16:14 : <Alex_A> I'm easily amused :)
2014-07-05 16:16:31 : <Larry> yes, Fred.
2014-07-05 16:16:42 : <fredskuentz> and I'm glad for both of us :D
2014-07-05 16:17:02 : <Lensman> SO SAY WE ALL!
2014-07-05 16:17:03 : <Alex_A> If a movie annoys me I tend to start picking on all the little faults
2014-07-05 16:17:14 : <Lensman> Alex: Me too.
2014-07-05 16:17:17 : <Alex_A> e.g
2014-07-05 16:17:18 : <Hippy> Same here
2014-07-05 16:17:25 : <Alex_A> Prometheus
2014-07-05 16:17:27 : <fredskuentz> sigh
2014-07-05 16:17:33 : <fredskuentz> I just opened you tube
2014-07-05 16:17:33 : <Lensman> Yeah, I'm far more willing to forgive minor flaws if I'm enjoying the story.
2014-07-05 16:17:46 : <fredskuentz> and it asked if I wanted to watch EVERYTHING WRONG WITH PACIFIC RIM
2014-07-05 16:17:48 : <fredskuentz> :\\
2014-07-05 16:17:56 : <Alex_A> if I'm enjoying the ride then even big flaws get by me
2014-07-05 16:18:12 : <Alex_A> Script is key
2014-07-05 16:18:27 : <Larry> my operating theory: an idea must be plausible or interesting.
2014-07-05 16:18:36 : <Alex_A> attractive cast helps tho
2014-07-05 16:18:39 : <fredskuentz> yes
2014-07-05 16:18:45 : <fredskuentz> Alex, pacific rim
2014-07-05 16:18:56 : <Alex_A> Seems a good rule Larry
2014-07-05 16:18:57 : <Lensman> We saw "Prometheus" as an outing for our SF club. That was an excellent pick, as we had quite a lot to discuss at the restaurant afterward. An interesting but seriously flawed film makes for the best conversation.
2014-07-05 16:18:58 : <fredskuentz> best part was that I google imaged the japanese co pilot
2014-07-05 16:19:10 : <fredskuentz> and she's done all SORTS of interesting nudity
2014-07-05 16:19:12 : <fredskuentz> :D
2014-07-05 16:19:15 : <Jim> I am much more willing to buy into the movie, if it has female nudity.
2014-07-05 16:19:23 : <fredskuentz> http://youtu.be/V10KeJgjgCw
2014-07-05 16:19:29 : <Lensman> If it's a great film, the discussion tends to be "That was great!" "Yeah, great." And then the conversation stops.
2014-07-05 16:19:44 : <Alex_A> True Lens
2014-07-05 16:19:58 : <Hippy> Very true
2014-07-05 16:20:27 : <Alex_A> Same goes for LNL - long discussions of flawed films
2014-07-05 16:20:34 : <sean> back from river.
2014-07-05 16:20:42 : <fredskuentz> hey sean
2014-07-05 16:20:44 : <Hippy> Good to hear, Sean
2014-07-05 16:20:51 : <Foremost> http://ppcdn.500px.org/75658335/f3e1d7bb502c02a8a032754476b9ecebd7c99ff7...
2014-07-05 16:21:01 : <Alex_A> How was she? :)
2014-07-05 16:21:02 : <Larry> sean: river?
2014-07-05 16:21:04 : <Lensman> Hmmm, I wouldn't say that I "buy into" a film more if it has female nudity. Rather, with enough fem-nudity I don't CARE if it has a good story or not. Plenty of entertainment right there!
2014-07-05 16:21:17 : <fredskuentz> hence, Barbarella
2014-07-05 16:21:20 : <Lensman> "Basic Instinct" had a stupid story. Who cares?
2014-07-05 16:21:39 : <sean> Larry, the kentucky river is behind my house and I have an all sand beach for a back yard. it fills up with boats every weekend.
2014-07-05 16:21:44 : <Lensman> What is LNL?
2014-07-05 16:21:52 : <Alex_A> Good laughs help too
2014-07-05 16:21:57 : <Hippy> Nothing wrong with the story in 'Barbarella'
2014-07-05 16:22:10 : <Alex_A> Larry Niven List :)
2014-07-05 16:22:15 : <fredskuentz> hey
2014-07-05 16:22:22 : <fredskuentz> I used to be on that!
2014-07-05 16:22:24 : <Lensman> Did "Barbarella" actually have a story?
2014-07-05 16:22:30 : <fredskuentz> yeah
2014-07-05 16:22:32 : <Lensman> Ah, thanks Alex.
2014-07-05 16:22:37 : <fredskuentz> she has to find duran duran jr
2014-07-05 16:22:43 : <fredskuentz> and retrieve the positronic ray
2014-07-05 16:22:48 : <Alex_A> Sorry
2014-07-05 16:23:09 : <Lensman> Obviously you remember that movie much, much, much better than I do, Fred.
2014-07-05 16:23:10 : <Hippy> I should probably try for a Campbellian analysis of 'Barbarella' one day
2014-07-05 16:23:27 : <fredskuentz> I've seen B many many times
2014-07-05 16:23:29 : <Alex_A> The Success of the Avengers must be in part due to the laughs
2014-07-05 16:23:39 : <Lensman> But then, so far as I'm concerned, you might as well shut it off after the opening striptease, 'cuz it's downhill all the way after that.
2014-07-05 16:23:40 : <fredskuentz> starting when was 14, in the theater :)
2014-07-05 16:24:00 : <Larry> Avengers had to be funny to be great.
2014-07-05 16:24:13 : <Hippy> It did have its laughs
2014-07-05 16:24:38 : <Lensman> Which "The Avengers" are you talking about? The Marvel film?
2014-07-05 16:24:49 : <Alex_A> I am, yes
2014-07-05 16:24:50 : <Hippy> I thik so
2014-07-05 16:24:51 : <fredskuentz> there were no laughs in the Uma Thurman film
2014-07-05 16:24:52 : <sean> most of which were provided by tony stark ad-libbing lines
2014-07-05 16:24:59 : <fredskuentz> at least no deliberate ones
2014-07-05 16:25:16 : <Alex_A> Hulk had a few good moments too
2014-07-05 16:25:25 : <fredskuentz> Hulk thud Loki like rag doll funny
2014-07-05 16:25:29 : <fredskuentz> or what Alex said
2014-07-05 16:25:43 : <sean> most definitely the Puny God comment
2014-07-05 16:25:47 : <Alex_A> plus Cap silently paying his bet with Fury
2014-07-05 16:26:05 : <fredskuentz> a bet he never actually accepted
2014-07-05 16:26:05 : <fredskuentz> :)
2014-07-05 16:26:09 : <Lensman> I thought "Marvel's The Avengers" was Great because they got the characters RIGHT and they played them off against each other very well. Superb writing by Josh Whedon. Would have been a Great film even with little humor... that was icing on the cake.
2014-07-05 16:27:01 : <fredskuentz> I think Joss got lucky in that he was extremely constrained by what had come before
2014-07-05 16:27:07 : <sean> the galaga sequence was good too.
2014-07-05 16:27:08 : <Lensman> Yeah, Hulk playing rag doll with Loki was definitely one of the best moments of the film. In a good story, characters should earn their fate. Well, Loki certainly earned his!
2014-07-05 16:27:16 : <fredskuentz> I'm underwhelmed by the choices he's making for Avengers 2
2014-07-05 16:27:52 : <Lensman> Lucky? I'd say Whedon "made his own luck", to semi-quote Obi-Wan Kenobi.
AFK for lager
2014-07-05 16:28:21 : <Alex_A> I've avoided spoilers, but of course the title is a big give-away
2014-07-05 16:28:32 : <fredskuentz> what title?
2014-07-05 16:28:36 : <fredskuentz> Avengers?
2014-07-05 16:28:53 : <Alex_A> Avengers: Age of Ultron
2014-07-05 16:29:00 : <fredskuentz> ahhh
2014-07-05 16:29:00 : <Larry> I am summoned. Fare you all well.
2014-07-05 16:29:07 : <fredskuentz> bye larry
2014-07-05 16:29:12 : <fredskuentz> thanks for stopping in
2014-07-05 16:29:15 : <fredskuentz> best to Marilyn
2014-07-05 16:29:17 : <Lensman> Bye Larry!
2014-07-05 16:29:25 : <Alex_A> Keep well and best wishes to Marilyn
2014-07-05 16:29:41 : <fredskuentz> or what Alex said
2014-07-05 16:29:51 : <Lensman> Ditto.
2014-07-05 16:31:10 : <sean> So what topics were discussed?
back
2014-07-05 16:31:35 : <Hippy> Larry is writing a dream journal to help with ideas
2014-07-05 16:31:36 : <Alex_A> I'm excited for Guardians of the Galaxy - seems to have a Firefly vibe going by the trailers
2014-07-05 16:32:10 : <sean> Lucy seems interesting
2014-07-05 16:32:19 : <Jim> bye
2014-07-05 16:32:33 : <fredskuentz> Nathan Fillon is in Guardians
2014-07-05 16:32:36 : <fredskuentz> somewhere
notes that Orlando hasn't run out of 4th of July fireworks yet
2014-07-05 16:33:29 : <Lensman> GOTG has a nice trailer. Haven't heard from anyone who has actually seen it, tho. Too many lousy movies with great trailers for me to use that as a yardstick.
2014-07-05 16:33:29 : <Alex_A> So I heard - I wonder if he's a rakish spaceship captain :)
2014-07-05 16:33:33 : <sean> neither has frankfort.
2014-07-05 16:34:27 : <Alex_A> Well there hasn't really been a duff Marvel Studios movie, so I have faith
2014-07-05 16:34:33 : <Lensman> Sean: Wasn't much serious or semi-serious discussion this month. Fred and I trashed "Pacific Rim".
2014-07-05 16:34:51 : <fredskuentz> Larry told us Marilyn is home, after 3 months
2014-07-05 16:34:59 : <fredskuentz> hobbling with walker
2014-07-05 16:35:00 : <Lensman> Oh, there was some discussion of WorldCon site selection. So okay, that was a serious topic.
2014-07-05 16:35:01 : <Hippy> Thunderstorm just arriving in Orlando
2014-07-05 16:35:06 : <fredskuentz> stuck downstairs
2014-07-05 16:35:40 : <Alex_A> Depends how you define "serious" :)
2014-07-05 16:35:49 : <fredskuentz> or what Alex said
2014-07-05 16:35:58 : <Lensman> Hippy: How long have you lived in Florida?
2014-07-05 16:36:11 : <sean> I did not think there would be that healthy of a chat due to the holiday weekend.
2014-07-05 16:36:27 : <Hippy> Comin gon to five months this time. Only allowed six months at a time. Thanks to US imigration laws
2014-07-05 16:36:28 : <Jim> healthy enough
2014-07-05 16:36:40 : <fredskuentz> Gofffan is away with only an android phone that would require a flash client
2014-07-05 16:36:46 : <Lensman> I was surprised there was that much interest in the mechanics of WorldCon site selection.
2014-07-05 16:36:49 : <fredskuentz> Similar excuse from Teela
2014-07-05 16:36:53 : <Alex_A> No holiday here :(
2014-07-05 16:37:12 : <sean> flash client available... i think you mean java client.
2014-07-05 16:37:14 : <fredskuentz> er
2014-07-05 16:37:16 : <fredskuentz> yeah
2014-07-05 16:37:21 : <fredskuentz> non flash client
2014-07-05 16:37:22 : <fredskuentz> :)
2014-07-05 16:37:43 : <Alex_A> We celebrated Indepence day by naming our new Aircraft Carrier :)
2014-07-05 16:37:43 : <sean> working on java client. mark has to do most of the work and he is busy a lot.
2014-07-05 16:37:52 : <Lensman> Hippy: Well you confused me when you said there had never been a WorldCon "here"... don't you otherwise reside in the British Isles? Is it Ireland... pardon my bad memory.
2014-07-05 16:38:14 : <sean> he is from Oz
2014-07-05 16:38:17 : <fredskuentz> "I am out on the east end with no computer and a smart phone that doesn't have any more flash than an iPad.
2014-07-05 16:38:17 : <fredskuentz> Aargghhh!"
2014-07-05 16:38:21 : <Hippy> Hmph. Austrlia has been independent for a long time, lens :)
2014-07-05 16:38:29 : <Alex_A> lol
2014-07-05 16:38:33 : <Lensman> Okay, Oz. Even worse than I thought.
2014-07-05 16:38:51 : <Hippy> It's good tobe here chatting at a cilisd hour, though
2014-07-05 16:38:56 : <Alex_A> Still same Head of State though :)
2014-07-05 16:39:04 : <Hippy> I would like to stay loner here but can't manage it.
2014-07-05 16:39:17 : <Hippy> Exactly, AlexA - and a good thing, too
2014-07-05 16:39:18 : <fredskuentz> thanks for the time you did give us, Hippy
2014-07-05 16:39:19 : <sean> longer
2014-07-05 16:39:28 : <fredskuentz> it's appreciated
2014-07-05 16:39:35 : <Lensman> But Oz has likewise had its share of WorldCons. Not sure, but possibly even more than the UK?
2014-07-05 16:39:45 : <Hippy> Have to be out of here by Aug 10.
2014-07-05 16:40:15 : <Hippy> More than London, but there was Glasgow as well. Probably equal on 4 Cons each
2014-07-05 16:40:32 : <Lensman> Okay.
2014-07-05 16:41:09 : <fredskuentz> I think the UK has had 7?
2014-07-05 16:41:29 : <fredskuentz> counting Glasgow
2014-07-05 16:41:40 : <Alex_A> Larry indicated he intended to come to London WorldCon this year, but hadn't booked flights yet
2014-07-05 16:42:16 : <fredskuentz> only 4 in OZ
2014-07-05 16:42:20 : <Hippy> Well, there you surprise me, Fred. London hasz had 3, Glasgow one...where else? Machester, LIverpool?
2014-07-05 16:42:27 : <Alex_A> if he does I may get a day pass to see him
2014-07-05 16:42:32 : <fredskuentz> Glasgow had 2
2014-07-05 16:42:43 : <Alex_A> I thought Glasgow had 2
2014-07-05 16:42:50 : <fredskuentz> or what alex said
2014-07-05 16:42:54 : <Hippy> All at melbvourne, though, whcih should make it the most popular city outside of America
2014-07-05 16:42:55 : <Alex_A> snap
2014-07-05 16:42:57 : <fredskuentz> 2 in Brighton
2014-07-05 16:43:09 : "ronn" joined the channel.
2014-07-05 16:43:12 : <Hippy> Ah, Brighto
2014-07-05 16:43:14 : <fredskuentz> hey ronn
2014-07-05 16:43:17 : <Hippy> Hi, Ronn
2014-07-05 16:43:17 : <sean> hi ronn
2014-07-05 16:43:34 : <Alex_A> .wik WorldCon
2014-07-05 16:43:35 : <Outsider> "Worldcon, or more formally The World Science Fiction Convention, is a science fiction convention held each year since 1939 (except for the years 1942 to 1945, during World War II)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldCon
2014-07-05 16:43:40 : <Lensman> Yeah, I just looked at the Wiki list. As Fred said, two in Brighton, total does appear to be 7, at least skimming thru.
2014-07-05 16:43:44 : <ronn> Hello!
2014-07-05 16:43:49 : <fredskuentz> Hippy, you're right, Melbourne wins for 'outside USA'
2014-07-05 16:44:02 : <Lensman> Hi Ronn.
2014-07-05 16:44:27 : <Hippy> Yay, Melbourne!
2014-07-05 16:44:54 : <fredskuentz> Chicago's the big winner though
2014-07-05 16:45:48 : <Hippy> Considering the rules ere st up originally so as not to disadvantage the midwest, Chicago's done pretty well.
2014-07-05 16:46:22 : <Lensman> Odd, since Chicago fandom is splintered into disparate groups, some of which literally won't talk to anyone in another group. Still, they do manage to throw successful WorldCons.
2014-07-05 16:47:07 : <Hippy> The main thing is that I can get a good spot at a bar
2014-07-05 16:47:52 : <Lensman> Which bar? Draco Tavern? Callahan's?
2014-07-05 16:48:00 : <Hippy> Okay. If I suddenly drop out, it's because we've lost power. Lightning getting awfully close here :)
2014-07-05 16:48:01 : <Alex_A> I haven't been to Melbourne - have visited Adelaide and Sydney
2014-07-05 16:48:46 : <Hippy> Yep, just lost power briefly. Printer rebooting, PC stable. HP machines suck arse
2014-07-05 16:48:54 : <Hippy> Sorry, who had been to Adelaide?
2014-07-05 16:49:04 : <sean> Hippy, has recently been at Sean's Bar and Grill. ;)
2014-07-05 16:49:14 : <Alex_A> Adelaide folk seem to have a grudge against Melbourne for taking the F1 GO
2014-07-05 16:49:23 : <Alex_A> me hippy
2014-07-05 16:49:27 : <Hippy> Where the service was fantastic.
2014-07-05 16:49:51 : <Hippy> You're right, Alex. They do
2014-07-05 16:50:04 : <Hippy> Personally, I hope they get it back
2014-07-05 16:50:05 : <Lensman> Well, under the old rules, Kansas City would never have lost out to Los Angeles. So I'm not all that sure the current rules are an improvement. I guess it depends on what fans think the goal should be. Favoring the Midwest cities 1 year out of 3 isn't necessarily "fair", either.
2014-07-05 16:50:18 : <sean> Well, more of bar, bed and breakfast. ;)
2014-07-05 16:50:33 : <Alex_A> where in Oz are you?
2014-07-05 16:50:56 : <Hippy> When I'm there, Melbourne. I'm sort of homeless at the moment, since I visit here so much.
2014-07-05 16:51:45 : <Alex_A> "here" is where?
2014-07-05 16:51:55 : <Hippy> Orlando, Florida
2014-07-05 16:52:03 : <Alex_A> Ah right
2014-07-05 16:52:19 : <Alex_A> Sorry you already said that
2014-07-05 16:52:40 : <Hippy> I still hope to get down to the Caribbean this time, if these eyes improve
2014-07-05 16:52:59 : <Alex_A> been to Orlando several times - Disney & Universal with family
2014-07-05 16:53:01 : <Lensman> Alex said that just to make me feel better about my memory problems. :)
Hippy is in Orlando
2014-07-05 16:53:41 : <Lensman> LOL
2014-07-05 16:53:42 : <Hippy> There you go
2014-07-05 16:56:44 : <Lensman> Interesting thing about the China bid is that it's sponsored by a publisher, not a fan club. As someone on the Kansas City in 2016 committee noted, they could simply buy success for the bid by buying a lot of supporting WorldCon memberships for this year, and paying the site selection fee for those memberships.
2014-07-05 16:57:30 : <Hippy> That's an entusiastic publisher - so mayube it will be Delhi in 2018?
2014-07-05 16:57:48 : "Growler" joined the channel.
2014-07-05 16:57:50 : <Lensman> I do recall an instance or two of serious discussion of disqualifying what appeared to be bloc voting for Hugos, but any disqualification of site selection votes would be up to the site selection committee.
2014-07-05 16:58:12 : <Hippy> I'm not knocking back a trip to Macao for a Con
2014-07-05 16:58:20 : <Lensman> At any rate... it looks like China isn't trying to stuff the ballot box. Not so far, at least.
2014-07-05 16:58:21 : <Hippy> But not Beijing
2014-07-05 16:59:04 : <Alex_A> Hong Kong is nice
2014-07-05 16:59:10 : <Hippy> Who just joined? I missed it.
2014-07-05 16:59:19 : <Hippy> You seem to have travelled a bit, alex
2014-07-05 16:59:21 : <Lensman> Hippy: Growler.
2014-07-05 16:59:28 : <Alex_A> Growler
2014-07-05 16:59:47 : <Lensman> I haven't seen any complaints about air pollution in Hong Kong, so that would likely be a better site.
2014-07-05 16:59:48 : <Hippy> Hello, growler! Lone survivor of the Southern Hemisphere
2014-07-05 17:00:00 : <Growler> Hi, from the not so sunny but not really yet so cold mid-winter south pacific
2014-07-05 17:00:01 : <Alex_A> Was fortunate to get to travel with my work to overseas meetings
2014-07-05 17:00:21 : <Hippy> Nice, Alex
2014-07-05 17:00:30 : <Alex_A> Has been cut back recently tho :(
2014-07-05 17:01:27 : <Alex_A> Managed to visit HK while it was still British
2014-07-05 17:01:28 : <Lensman> The legal relationship between Hong Kong and the rest of China is a thorny one, tho. A company based in China might not want to bid Hong Kong for that reason.
2014-07-05 17:01:50 : <Growler> If you go to Hong Kong, or Singapore, Kula Lumpur etc make sure to getr some clothes made. Such greta places for some cheap pesoanl tailoring.
does need a few more suits - and nnew hats
2014-07-05 17:02:26 : <Alex_A> Visited again after handover
2014-07-05 17:02:46 : <Lensman> Perhaps my opinion is biased, but it does seem to me that Hong Kong would be more likely to get votes than Bejing.
2014-07-05 17:02:46 : <Alex_A> Not a big change as far as I could tell
2014-07-05 17:02:53 : <Hippy> I"m glad to seee you say 'handover' and not 'handback'
2014-07-05 17:03:03 : <Lensman> Votes by those who don't live in China, that is.
2014-07-05 17:03:42 : <Alex_A> well HK island wasn't leased, only the New Territories
2014-07-05 17:03:50 : <Hippy> It would be a good reason to viit there, but I think Macao would offer better hotels and rates - they are more keen on tourism there
2014-07-05 17:04:15 : <Hippy> Where's Neil Pritvhard when you need him? He was born in HK
2014-07-05 17:04:31 : <Alex_A> Macao isn't far from HK Right?
2014-07-05 17:04:36 : <Hippy> So would have good connections to the criminal underworld
2014-07-05 17:04:49 : <Hippy> Er...I don't actually know, Alex
2014-07-05 17:05:29 : <Alex_A> .g distance from Hong Kong to Macao
2014-07-05 17:05:30 : <Outsider> Alex_A: http://www.wikihow.com/Get-From-Hong-Kong-Airport-to-Macao
2014-07-05 17:05:43 : <fredskuentz> air pollution in hong kong is so bad
2014-07-05 17:05:45 : <fredskuentz> HOW
2014-07-05 17:05:46 : <fredskuentz> BAD
2014-07-05 17:05:48 : <fredskuentz> IS
2014-07-05 17:05:49 : <fredskuentz> IT?
2014-07-05 17:05:55 : <fredskuentz> it's SO bad
2014-07-05 17:05:59 : <fredskuentz> it has it's own Wiki
2014-07-05 17:06:00 : <fredskuentz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollution_in_Hong_Kong
2014-07-05 17:06:01 : <Lensman> 39.9 mi -- Distance from Macau to Hong Kong
2014-07-05 17:06:11 : <Alex_A> Yeap
2014-07-05 17:06:24 : <fredskuentz> it's so bad that when you type 'air pollution in h' into google, it auto fills 'hong kong'
2014-07-05 17:06:26 : <Hippy> That was worth the buildup, Fred.
2014-07-05 17:06:30 : <fredskuentz> :)
2014-07-05 17:06:48 : <Lensman> Oh. Okay, I just hadn't seen any stories about the air pollution in HK. Have seen a lot about it in Bejing.
2014-07-05 17:06:56 : <Hippy> Well, my grography just got fractionally corrected
2014-07-05 17:08:25 : <Growler> Hong Kong isn't that bad for air pollution - not ocmpared to placesl ioke Beijing. It gets oppressive among the tall buildings in Hong Kong in the heat. The harbours water pollution is worse.
2014-07-05 17:09:09 : <Alex_A> FWIW it seemed ok on my 2 visits
2014-07-05 17:09:36 : <Alex_A> IIRC London regularly breaches EU limits
2014-07-05 17:09:46 : <Lensman> Wiki says "Macau... also spelled Macao..." So I guess that's what you mean. Personally I wouldn't know Mr. Macao if he came up and bit me on the nose.
2014-07-05 17:10:00 : <Lensman> But then, geography has never been my strong suit.
2014-07-05 17:10:26 : <fredskuentz> In March 2011, the City of London remains the only UK region in breach of the EC’s limit values
2014-07-05 17:10:39 : <ronn> Hi!
2014-07-05 17:10:53 : <fredskuentz> yikes
2014-07-05 17:11:02 : <Alex_A> Have any of seen the "Noble House" mini series set in HK?
2014-07-05 17:11:03 : <fredskuentz> 10 people a day drop dead in London just from the air
2014-07-05 17:11:26 : <ronn> Things are being weird here: I typed that "Hi! twenty minutes or so ago . . . .
2014-07-05 17:11:42 : <fredskuentz> hey, look, ronn joined!
2014-07-05 17:11:47 : <ronn> How many would drop dead if there were no air?
2014-07-05 17:11:54 : <fredskuentz> snicker
2014-07-05 17:12:15 : <Lensman> Ronn has read "Singularities Make Me Nervous" too many times.
2014-07-05 17:12:23 : <Alex_A> How is that statistic gathered?
2014-07-05 17:13:16 : <fredskuentz> London Assembly Environment Committee (2009). "Every Breath You Take". Retrieved 4 April. [dead link]
2014-07-05 17:13:44 : <fredskuentz> clearly the people that gathered that statistic ... did not survive
2014-07-05 17:13:46 : <Lensman> Yeah, I was wondering that myself. Surely it can't be more than a statistical estimate. Just as with the contribution of gasoline and diesel fumes to emphysema and other chronic health problems, or smoking for that matter, it's difficult or impossible to establish a direct causal relationship.
2014-07-05 17:14:10 : <ronn> The link breathed the air?
2014-07-05 17:14:25 : <Alex_A> Indeed
2014-07-05 17:14:33 : <fredskuentz> it seems to be worse than that
2014-07-05 17:14:50 : <fredskuentz> 3000 people a year is from PM10 concentrations
2014-07-05 17:14:56 : <Alex_A> .g death rates air pollution UK
2014-07-05 17:14:57 : <Outsider> Alex_A: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26973783
wishes he could scroll back
2014-07-05 17:15:02 : <fredskuentz> I guess maybe they can identify that
2014-07-05 17:15:07 : <Lensman> 3000 just in London?
2014-07-05 17:15:10 : <fredskuentz> yeah
2014-07-05 17:15:23 : <fredskuentz> "The City of London has dangerous levels of PM10 concentrations, estimated to cause 3000 deaths per year within the city."
2014-07-05 17:15:30 : <Lensman> Ah, the whole of UK. That I'll believe.
2014-07-05 17:15:35 : <fredskuentz> no
2014-07-05 17:15:43 : <Hippy> Thik of it as evolution in action
2014-07-05 17:15:44 : <fredskuentz> 3000 a year, just in the city of London
2014-07-05 17:16:19 : <fredskuentz> wonder what their birth rate is :)
2014-07-05 17:16:27 : <Lensman> Still, it's obviously just an estimate. But okay, perhaps it really is that bad.
2014-07-05 17:16:46 : <Lensman> I confess I have no idea what "PM10" means.
2014-07-05 17:16:59 : <ronn> fred: >3001 ?
2014-07-05 17:17:23 : <fredskuentz> a chart!
2014-07-05 17:17:29 : <ronn> "particulat matter < 10 microns in diameter" I think
2014-07-05 17:17:30 : <fredskuentz> worse is Cairo
2014-07-05 17:17:36 : <fredskuentz> then Delhi
2014-07-05 17:17:38 : <fredskuentz> Calcutta
2014-07-05 17:17:48 : <fredskuentz> Tianjin China
2014-07-05 17:17:57 : <fredskuentz> Chongqung China
2014-07-05 17:18:01 : <fredskuentz> Kanpur India
2014-07-05 17:18:08 : <fredskuentz> Lucknow India
2014-07-05 17:18:13 : <fredskuentz> Jakarta Indonesia
2014-07-05 17:18:13 : <Lensman> Well, I think you ought to consider the per-capita rate, not the total. A city with more people will naturally...
2014-07-05 17:18:21 : <fredskuentz> Shenyang China
2014-07-05 17:18:35 : <Lensman> China has a large number of REALLY big cities.
2014-07-05 17:18:37 : <Hippy> I sense a theme
2014-07-05 17:18:42 : <fredskuentz> ronn, yeah, PM is particulate matter
2014-07-05 17:18:52 : <fredskuentz> not sure how they weed out the people that die from PM10
2014-07-05 17:19:03 : <fredskuentz> is it so big it's stuck in their noses?
2014-07-05 17:19:38 : <fredskuentz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PM10
2014-07-05 17:19:39 : "Larry" left the channel.
2014-07-05 17:19:45 : <fredskuentz> Bye Larry!
2014-07-05 17:20:06 : <Hippy> Oops. I thought he had left ages ago
2014-07-05 17:20:17 : <Lensman> Well, I remember from my computer classes that smoke particles are much smaller than dust particles. So perhaps <10 microns is mostly from smoke?
2014-07-05 17:20:18 : <fredskuentz> no, he lurked
2014-07-05 17:20:51 : <Lensman> I think he was AFK.
2014-07-05 17:20:56 : <fredskuentz> si
2014-07-05 17:22:04 : <fredskuentz> huh. smaller is deadlier.
2014-07-05 17:22:14 : <fredskuentz> 'cause it gets deeper in your lungs
2014-07-05 17:22:36 : <fredskuentz> looks like PM10 is 10 micrometers or less
2014-07-05 17:23:06 : <fredskuentz> and 10 and less is the level you can breath in
2014-07-05 17:23:07 : <Alex_A> PM10s are produced in diesel exhausts
2014-07-05 17:23:16 : <Lensman> Smaller is more likely to get down into the tissues of your lungs and stay there. Larger particles tend to be brought up into the throat and coughed out, via the normal action of cilia and mucus in the lungs and throat.
2014-07-05 17:23:26 : <Lensman> So I've read, anyway.
2014-07-05 17:23:26 : <Alex_A> they penetrate into lungs
2014-07-05 17:23:40 : <fredskuentz> but diesel is completely clean and non polluting!
2014-07-05 17:23:49 : <fredskuentz> that's what they tell us here anyway
2014-07-05 17:24:23 : <fredskuentz> larger than 10 gets stopped by nose hair
2014-07-05 17:24:29 : <fredskuentz> I better stop trimming ...
2014-07-05 17:24:41 : <Lensman> Don't get me started on the propaganda from diesel-heads. Fair warning: I'm an advocate for electric cars, and I'll happily post at length on those subjects.
2014-07-05 17:24:46 : <Hippy> My nose hair would stop a Buick
2014-07-05 17:25:12 : <fredskuentz> I doubt you have to worry about stopping anything bigger than a nostril
2014-07-05 17:25:35 : <fredskuentz> Lens, for decades here, diesel didn't even have to go through emmissions testing
2014-07-05 17:25:41 : <fredskuentz> 'cause they're non polluting
2014-07-05 17:25:48 : <ronn> Hippy: But based on current commercials, would they recognize it as one?
2014-07-05 17:25:53 : <fredskuentz> you can't see through or breath the crap, but, yey
2014-07-05 17:25:56 : <fredskuentz> ronn
2014-07-05 17:25:57 : <fredskuentz> LOL
2014-07-05 17:26:07 : <fredskuentz> stupid stupid stupid ad campaign
2014-07-05 17:26:15 : <ronn> Fred: If a Buick tried to go up your nose, I think you'd have something to worry about . . .
2014-07-05 17:26:24 : <fredskuentz> HEY THIS ISN'T AN UGLY SACK OF CRAP! IT CAN'T BE A BUICK!
2014-07-05 17:26:37 : <fredskuentz> THERE'S NOTHING BUT NICE CARS HERE! I DON'T SEE A BUICK!
2014-07-05 17:26:55 : <fredskuentz> "Buick. It used to be ugly garbage. Now it's unrecognizable."
2014-07-05 17:27:13 : <Hippy> Well, I will say that cars used to look better than they do now. It has been mentioned here before that it's the penalty of aerodynamics that make all cars look the same
2014-07-05 17:27:19 : <Lensman> Well, reading a few articles on the subject doesn't make me an expert. But from what I've read, diesel engines do tend to put out less soot... except in the specific category of the types of soot that tends to be carcinogenic... where it's worse than gasoline. However, that's only considering the diesel fumes from well-adjusted motors.
2014-07-05 17:27:35 : <Hippy> I wonder if snyone has done drag tests on a model T
2014-07-05 17:27:38 : <ronn> stupid ad campaigns are some of the easiest to make fun of
2014-07-05 17:27:54 : <fredskuentz> The main thing at play is that the legislature tends to drive diesel
2014-07-05 17:27:57 : <ronn> Hippy: Yep.
2014-07-05 17:28:19 : <Hippy> Are they aerodyamic?
2014-07-05 17:28:31 : <Lensman> They say 90% of the pollution comes from 10% of the vehicles. So I'm not all that concerned about the well-tuned vehicles.. it's the badly out of tune heavy trucks spewing out obvious and smelly exhaust that concerns me!
2014-07-05 17:28:54 : <Alex_A> Well I drive a diesel. but all vehicles have annual emission checks here
2014-07-05 17:29:14 : <Hippy> But they are probably trivial compared to the pollution from electricity plants
2014-07-05 17:29:38 : <Alex_A> certainly it's rare to see a really Smokey diesel these days
2014-07-05 17:29:44 : <ronn> What the ads are saying is "BUICK: IT USED TO HAVE A DISTINCTIVE LOOK. NOW IT LOOKS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE."
2014-07-05 17:29:57 : <fredskuentz> look in hong kong, alex :)
2014-07-05 17:30:09 : <Hippy> Same with Rolls-Royces
2014-07-05 17:30:24 : <ronn> Alex: How about a Smokey with a diesel pulled over?
2014-07-05 17:30:30 : <Lensman> If annual emission checks are required in the EU and UK, then very likely it is a lot better over there. Unfortunately all too many U.S. states don't require annual checks. So, national trucking fleets can just licence all their trucks in a state which doesn't...
2014-07-05 17:30:48 : <Alex_A> I'm talking about UK
2014-07-05 17:30:54 : <fredskuentz> okay, they have a distinctive, and by that I mean 'butt ugly' grill
2014-07-05 17:30:56 : <fredskuentz> http://www.buick.com
2014-07-05 17:31:23 : <Hippy> But a well-tuned truck is more efficient, so the companies would keep them tuned, I assume.
2014-07-05 17:31:42 : <Hippy> The grille and the interior are the last bastions of design, it seems
2014-07-05 17:32:28 : <Lensman> Hippy: Logic would indicate so. Sadly, humans are rarely driven by logic.
2014-07-05 17:32:29 : <ronn> you know what happens when you ass-u-me . . .
2014-07-05 17:33:24 : <Lensman> But okay, perhaps most of the heavy polluters are "independent" truckers, not fleet trucks.
2014-07-05 17:33:43 : <Lensman> But there are a lot of independent truckers in the USA, also.
2014-07-05 17:33:48 : <Hippy> It's probably most short haul trucks, too
2014-07-05 17:34:19 : <Hippy> It's a queston worth looking into, though
2014-07-05 17:34:43 : <Alex_A> airlines seem to be driven by reducing fuel use. wonder why not the same for trucks
2014-07-05 17:35:12 : <Hippy> Trucks are probably in a far more competitive industry than airlines.
2014-07-05 17:35:31 : <Hippy> Airlines can ad on fees and have many places to cut costs, whereas trucks did all that decades ago
2014-07-05 17:35:42 : <Lensman> And as far as diesel pollution vs. power plant pollution: The question arises just -where- the pollution is emitted. Lots of power plants are not in dense urban areas. If you're driving on the highway, you're being exposed to a lot of diesel pollution, from vehicles in front of you. At least on American highways... again, perhas it's better in western Europe.
2014-07-05 17:36:15 : <fredskuentz> Nuke plants *have* to be in the middle of the city.
2014-07-05 17:36:22 : <Alex_A> I'm sure London's problems are due to traffic
2014-07-05 17:36:23 : <Hippy> True, Lens
2014-07-05 17:36:27 : <fredskuentz> Nuke juice doesn't have the 'oomph' to travel any distance
2014-07-05 17:36:37 : <Alex_A> No Power plants nearby
2014-07-05 17:36:42 : <fredskuentz> that's what that brilliant Santos said on The West Wing
2014-07-05 17:36:50 : <fredskuentz> (somewhere Sheen's head explodes)
2014-07-05 17:36:53 : <Hippy> So perhaps nuclear trucks are the answer
2014-07-05 17:37:11 : <Lensman> Deaths from coal-fired power plants in the USA are variously estimated at 15,000 to 30,000 per year. Just in the USA. I presume the deaths from diesel are higher, but don't recall seeing estimates.
2014-07-05 17:38:13 : <Alex_A> aren't radioactive emissions from Coal plants higher than for nuke plants?
2014-07-05 17:38:42 : <Alex_A> coal is slightly radioactive but they burn lots
2014-07-05 17:38:47 : <fredskuentz> http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2013/11/diesel-lun...
2014-07-05 17:38:57 : <Lensman> Fuel cost accounts for about 50% of the cost of transporting freight.
2014-07-05 17:40:04 : <fredskuentz> they're saying 11k in the us & uk from diesel
2014-07-05 17:40:12 : <Growler> Anyone here watched Keoghs '1001 Movies You Must See Before you Die' supercut?
2014-07-05 17:40:25 : <Lensman> What I find really... sad? infuriating?... is the way that the economics of "just in time" shipping has heavily promoted use of Interstate trucking over railroads for long-distance freight. Our raliroads languish from disuse while the much more inefficient, much more polluting heavy trucks clog our highways and pound them to rubble every year.
2014-07-05 17:40:56 : <Hippy> You are right there, Lens
2014-07-05 17:41:17 : <Lensman> I hope that someday, some one will figure out how to change that around with making high speed rail profitable for freight hauling.
2014-07-05 17:41:32 : <fredskuentz> well, first, you have to kill all the teamsters
2014-07-05 17:41:42 : <Hippy> Hopefully that will chane now that large inventories needn't be kept full of redundant articles
2014-07-05 17:42:28 : <Hippy> Hmm. What I mean is, if you can gauge your inventory properly, it doesn't need to be 'just in time'. Sadly, 'just in time' is now a fashion that is hard to break
2014-07-05 17:42:33 : <Alex_A> I think rail freight has had a bit of a resurgence in UK
2014-07-05 17:42:49 : <Jim> Railroads have seen an upswing because of increased fuel costs.
2014-07-05 17:43:00 : <fredskuentz> Electric drones from Amazon are our only hope
2014-07-05 17:43:00 : <Alex_A> .g rail freight volume UK
2014-07-05 17:43:01 : <Outsider> Alex_A: http://www.metadyne.co.uk/D_ml_freight_km.html
2014-07-05 17:43:05 : <Hippy> Because the UK"s rail network is still pretty good, Alex
2014-07-05 17:43:11 : <Jim> In the US, that is.
2014-07-05 17:43:27 : <Hippy> Outsider searches beter than I do
2014-07-05 17:43:42 : <Lensman> Easy to blame Teamsters for that. But I think that's misplaced, just like blaming Big Oil for electric cars not making much inroads into the car market. Sure, there is a lot of political pressure from Teamsters and Big Oil. But economics trumps political pressure. If it really was cheaper, it would win out.
2014-07-05 17:43:47 : <Jim> .g rail freight volume us
2014-07-05 17:43:48 : <Outsider> Jim: https://www.fra.dot.gov/Page/P0362
2014-07-05 17:44:02 : <ronn> spels better, too
2014-07-05 17:44:04 : <Hippy> Australia's problemis that the average speed for freight is 28kph, whereas trucks are 80kph
2014-07-05 17:44:25 : <Lensman> Eventually, electric cars will make petrol cars obsolete. But not until the average driver sees them as being -better- than gas guzzlers. That's still some years away from happening.
2014-07-05 17:44:49 : <Hippy> The ca4rs need to get better, Lens
2014-07-05 17:44:56 : <fredskuentz> yes
2014-07-05 17:45:29 : <fredskuentz> people here say to buy an electric for day to day use, and rent a gas any time you need to go anywhere beyond the market
2014-07-05 17:45:35 : <Lensman> LOL drones from Amazon.com. Well, perhaps someday. Right now, it seems rather premature. The technology has a ways to go.
2014-07-05 17:45:38 : <fredskuentz> I fart in their general direction
2014-07-05 17:45:45 : <ronn> The range and fueling turnaround time both need to become comparable to gas.
2014-07-05 17:45:48 : <Alex_A> Not much of an upswing going by those stats
2014-07-05 17:46:10 : <fredskuentz> I live 400 miles from the next major city
2014-07-05 17:46:39 : <fredskuentz> makes getting a tesla impractical
2014-07-05 17:46:42 : <Alex_A> For most products, speed isn't that important
2014-07-05 17:47:39 : <Alex_A> You need 4track railways to mix slow freight with fast passenger trains
2014-07-05 17:47:47 : <Hippy> It's the question of 1 day shipping for fish or three day shipping - and the 'just in tie' philosophy is what drives that.
2014-07-05 17:47:57 : <Hippy> Yes, and some of the UK has that
2014-07-05 17:48:09 : "Growler" left the channel.
2014-07-05 17:48:14 : <fredskuentz> have I told you what I'd have to do to take a train?
2014-07-05 17:48:15 : <Alex_A> most US lines are single or dual track IIRC
2014-07-05 17:48:36 : <Lensman> I'd love to own a Tesla Model S. But I'd have to be a lot richer to afford one. The best selling cars in the USA cost around 20-25 thousand dollars. In third-world countries, even cheaper. EVs (electric cars) won't become best sellers until the price comes down.
2014-07-05 17:48:43 : <Alex_A> main lines are 4 track in UK
2014-07-05 17:49:05 : <ronn> Fred: one problem is that it is often the people who can't afford to have two cars (own or rent) are the ones who need to travel longer distances for work (two or more part-time jobs where they have to be "on call" to come in at a moment's notice, sometimes)
2014-07-05 17:49:14 : <Hippy> It bugs me that many of our old railway sin Australia are now sold back to become waling tracks - and now they need rail because more peple live out at the end of these old tracks
2014-07-05 17:49:35 : <fredskuentz> I'd have to call a cab. I take the cab to the 'transportation center' in Scottsdale. I sit outside (in 110 heat) waiting for a bus. I take the bus to a really bad part of town, where I get on the bus south. I take the bus south 100 miles, where I catch a cab to the train station. Takes 3 hours.
2014-07-05 17:49:36 : <Lensman> Range is another issue. Sure, "battery heads" like me will point out that for most people, most of their daily driving will be within the limits of your battery range.
2014-07-05 17:49:39 : <Hippy> Where the hell is JumpShift when you need them?
2014-07-05 17:49:50 : <ronn> Whaling tracks?
2014-07-05 17:50:06 : <Lensman> But most people also know that when you get outside that range, it becomes a real issue for an EV, where it's not an issue for a gas guzzler.
2014-07-05 17:50:21 : <fredskuentz> yep
2014-07-05 17:50:25 : <Alex_A> Where I live now doesn't have a train station
2014-07-05 17:50:28 : <fredskuentz> and to buy a tesla here
2014-07-05 17:50:33 : <fredskuentz> I swear this is true
2014-07-05 17:50:39 : <fredskuentz> you call a number
2014-07-05 17:50:40 : <Hippy> Holy crap, AlexA
2014-07-05 17:50:43 : <fredskuentz> ask for 'vinnie'
2014-07-05 17:50:55 : <fredskuentz> vinnie meets you at a shopping mall
2014-07-05 17:51:01 : <fredskuentz> and brings a car for you to look at
2014-07-05 17:51:17 : <fredskuentz> if you buy it, and need it serviced
2014-07-05 17:51:18 : <Alex_A> but nearest is ~15 mins by car
2014-07-05 17:51:22 : <fredskuentz> you have it trucked to LA
2014-07-05 17:51:29 : <Alex_A> longer by bus
2014-07-05 17:52:20 : <Lensman> It's nice that Tesla Motors is building a "SuperCharger" network wherever it's selling Model S's. But I don't want to have to restrict my driving to within 100 miles of a Tesla SuperCharger station.
2014-07-05 17:52:50 : <fredskuentz> I think my nearest supercharger is LA
2014-07-05 17:52:55 : <Hippy> In the ealy days of cars, you had to do that. But of course you could take your petrol with you
2014-07-05 17:53:11 : <Alex_A> Fred isn't that because laws protect local car dealers from Teslas direct sales model?
2014-07-05 17:53:17 : <Lensman> Nor do I want to have to stop every 200 miles (or 150 miles) to charge for 45 minutes if I'm driving cross-country.
2014-07-05 17:53:22 : <fredskuentz> I dunno Alex
2014-07-05 17:53:33 : <Hippy> I have heard that people with Teslas are now paying a third tariff for charging their cars
2014-07-05 17:53:45 : <Alex_A> isn't a hybrid a better fit for you?
2014-07-05 17:54:02 : <Alex_A> still expensive tho
2014-07-05 17:54:02 : <Hippy> The charging time is another worry, as Lens says, but technology will at least solve that
2014-07-05 17:54:03 : <sean> how does the tesla do pulling the boat?
2014-07-05 17:54:09 : <fredskuentz> the supercharger network basically goes Sandy Eggo to LA to Frisco (and how many remember which is which any more) and are getting a branch off to Vega$
2014-07-05 17:54:49 : <sean> always my first question. as I told Hippy on the way back from chattanooga
2014-07-05 17:54:55 : <ronn> I've mentioned previously that to get to one campus where I taught - about a 20-minute direct drive - I hadd to walk a few blocks, catch one bus all the way to the terminal downtown, wait most of an hour, catch another one from town: total one-way trip of 2 hours or more. Another campus after I did that I would have to walk 3-4 miles from the nearest bus stop (and spend the night...
2014-07-05 17:54:56 : <ronn> ...somewhere because the buses stop running after 6 pm or so). The third campus (the one I had been teaching at first and longest): no bus anywhere at all . . .
2014-07-05 17:55:06 : <Lensman> Now, I don't agree on the criticism of Tesla Motors' service. They have mobile service which will come to -you-. Customer satisfaction with service is extremely high for Tesla Motors customers. Much higher than for just about any gas guzzler company.
2014-07-05 17:55:38 : <fredskuentz> Alex, yes
2014-07-05 17:55:39 : <fredskuentz> http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2014/04/03/tesla-hopes-sel...
2014-07-05 17:56:18 : <Lensman> EV charging time isn't a "worry". Most charging is at home, and is more convenient than having to drive to a gas station. Nor does it "take time" as it's being done while you sleep. Charging time is only an issue if you exceed the car's normal range.
2014-07-05 17:56:59 : <Hippy> Can I get someone to type an ISBN here. I just want to see if the text to speech is parsing numbers properly
2014-07-05 17:57:00 : <Lensman> Anyway, even if I did own a Model S, I would rent a gas guzzler to do a cross-country trip. Just so I wouldn't have to worry about it.
2014-07-05 17:57:19 : <fredskuentz> Lens, you're right, we have a service center here now
2014-07-05 17:57:21 : <fredskuentz> it's new
2014-07-05 17:57:44 : <Lensman> Yeah, whoever said that owning an EV right now is very much like owning a gas guzzler in the early days of the horseless carriage is spot on. Bull's-eye on target.
2014-07-05 17:57:52 : <fredskuentz> the truck to LA for service story was correct a couple years ago, when a friend was looking at them
2014-07-05 17:57:55 : <Hippy> Actually, just type a 13 digit number
2014-07-05 17:57:57 : <ronn> But until technology gets the charging time down to no longer than it takes to pull into a gas station, fill the tank, use the rest room, then be back on the road for another several hundred miles, electric cars won't be attractive to those who live any distance from town and/or their work.
2014-07-05 17:58:26 : <ronn> 3.141592653589793
2014-07-05 17:58:45 : <Hippy> Er, a whole number :)
2014-07-05 17:59:00 : <Lensman> The technology will improve, and infrastructure will be built, to the point that it won't take more than (guessing here) 5 to 10 minutes to recharge your EV, and you'll be able to do it just about anywhere. But that again is still some years away.
2014-07-05 17:59:07 : <fredskuentz> what the hell? there's a gull wing tesla?
2014-07-05 17:59:12 : <ronn> 3141592653589793
2014-07-05 17:59:32 : <ronn> who the heck memorizes ISBNs
2014-07-05 17:59:39 : <Hippy> Thanks, Ronn
2014-07-05 17:59:58 : <Hippy> You pi-romantic, you
2014-07-05 18:00:02 : <fredskuentz> ronn, we have a scheme here where instead of charging your batteries they have a machine that swaps 'em out
2014-07-05 18:00:10 : <fredskuentz> scares the hell out of me
2014-07-05 18:00:11 : <fredskuentz> :)
2014-07-05 18:00:20 : <ronn> ur welcome. What doesn't it like about decimal points?
2014-07-05 18:00:34 : <sean> 0-345-41863-8
2014-07-05 18:00:45 : <fredskuentz> http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx
2014-07-05 18:00:53 : <Jim> gotta go, see you next month, fare thee well
2014-07-05 18:00:56 : <Jim> bye
2014-07-05 18:00:59 : <ronn> 2.72818281828459045
2014-07-05 18:01:02 : <Hippy> I just wanted to see if it qas doing 'quadrillion, trillion' etc - but it read your pi as 3 point etc
2014-07-05 18:01:07 : "Jim" left the channel.
2014-07-05 18:01:15 : <Hippy> Dang missed him
2014-07-05 18:01:26 : <Lensman> Ringworld: The Graphic Novel, Part I -- ISBN-13: 978-0765324627
2014-07-05 18:01:40 : <fredskuentz> was there ever a part 2?
2014-07-05 18:01:42 : <Lensman> I didn't even know there was a graphic novel adaptation!
2014-07-05 18:01:47 : <fredskuentz> yes
2014-07-05 18:01:49 : <fredskuentz> ugly art
2014-07-05 18:01:54 : <ronn> If u wanted to check out numbers like that u shoulda asked for the Federal budget . . . . :P
2014-07-05 18:02:05 : <fredskuentz> I've only seen images from before the fleet of worlds
2014-07-05 18:02:12 : <Hippy> Okay, last thing before I go: Haha, Ronn
2014-07-05 18:02:12 : <fredskuentz> gathering the motley crew
2014-07-05 18:02:21 : <fredskuentz> that's why I asked if there was a part 2
2014-07-05 18:02:55 : <Lensman> Oh I see, it's a pre-order. "Publisher: Tor/Seven Seas; 1 Reprint edition (July 8, 2014)"
2014-07-05 18:03:05 : <Lensman> Patience, Grasshopper.
2014-07-05 18:03:28 : <fredskuentz> the one I saw was decades ago
2014-07-05 18:03:39 : <Hippy> Fliht out of Lexington delayed one hour, got to Chiacgo and no flights leaving for anywhere until further notice. Waited in departure lounge till 10:30. Got on plane. Plane about to go but then pilots had exceeded their maximum duty time.
2014-07-05 18:03:40 : <fredskuentz> lens, explain the tesla model X to me
2014-07-05 18:03:42 : <fredskuentz> http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx
2014-07-05 18:03:54 : <fredskuentz> 4 door gull wing?
2014-07-05 18:04:14 : <Hippy> Thus, plane not taking off. Stayed overnight in Chicago, again, and back to Orlando on WTuesday
2014-07-05 18:04:19 : <ronn> I've seen a lot of "Part I" graphic novels of F&SF series at the library, frex Anita Blake, Jim Butcher, but never a part two. Which admittedly might be an effect of whoever buys the books for the library system rather than the publishers . . .
2014-07-05 18:04:41 : <Hippy> So my flight curse continues, and it's the poor other people I feel for...
2014-07-05 18:04:48 : <fredskuentz> ronn, there are several complete Anita Blake comic series
2014-07-05 18:04:51 : <ronn> That's just plane annoying, Hippy . . .
2014-07-05 18:05:02 : <fredskuentz> and a lot of Dresden complete comics as well
2014-07-05 18:05:09 : <fredskuentz> I snag them for a friend
2014-07-05 18:05:15 : <Hippy> This has little to do with Lary Niven, but I had to answer Sean's question of a couple of days ago
2014-07-05 18:05:38 : <fredskuentz> so, yes, blame the library, not the publisher
2014-07-05 18:05:41 : <ronn> Fred: I figured it was more likely the purchasing dep't. . . .
2014-07-05 18:05:43 : <Hippy> Anyway, everyone, I shall see you, in the best sense of the word, next month
2014-07-05 18:05:44 : <fredskuentz> they're downloadable
2014-07-05 18:05:45 : <fredskuentz> :)
2014-07-05 18:05:53 : <fredskuentz> bye hippy
2014-07-05 18:05:57 : <fredskuentz> thanks for stopping in
2014-07-05 18:05:58 : <fredskuentz> :)
2014-07-05 18:06:03 : <Lensman> Hmmm, looks like low-quality manga. Bleah.
2014-07-05 18:06:05 : <ronn> Bye, Hippy!
2014-07-05 18:06:33 : <fredskuentz> hah, lens, sounds like it's a reprint of what I remember
2014-07-05 18:06:35 : <fredskuentz> got an url?
2014-07-05 18:06:44 : <sean> sounds like you would of been better off crashing with me Monday. Talk about flight curse.
2014-07-05 18:06:54 : <Hippy> 'Bye Fred, ronn!, Lens, AlexA, Sean, Outissider and sundry other persons
2014-07-05 18:07:13 : <ronn> Fred: Having no budget for comics or similar things and being dependent on the free public library is not much fun at times.
2014-07-05 18:07:21 : <Lensman> Fred: I explain the Tesla Model X as Americans having a psychotic obsession with tough-looking cars like SUVs. Altho I guess the Model X is a "crossover", not a true SUV.
2014-07-05 18:07:29 : <fredskuentz> ronn, check your private chat window
2014-07-05 18:07:37 : <fredskuentz> lens, my question is
2014-07-05 18:07:42 : <fredskuentz> are all 4 doors gull?
2014-07-05 18:07:49 : <fredskuentz> or just the rear?
2014-07-05 18:07:54 : <Hippy> You're right, Sean. Ah, well, it can't happen ecery year, especially if I fly via Phoenix, KC, Alabama and Christchurc h
2014-07-05 18:07:56 : <fredskuentz> the images on the site are ... odd
2014-07-05 18:08:22 : <Lensman> The gull-wing doors make it easier for moms to get the child seat in and out of the back when in a parking lot, where there isn't much space between your car and the one next to it.
2014-07-05 18:08:54 : <fredskuentz> lens
2014-07-05 18:08:58 : <Hippy> See you in August!
2014-07-05 18:08:59 : <fredskuentz> I know the gull
2014-07-05 18:09:03 : <Lensman> At least, that's the argument in favor of gull-wing doors I've read on forums. The argument against is it makes it impossible to mount a ski rack or bicycle rack on the top of the car.
2014-07-05 18:09:05 : <fredskuentz> I used to have a bricklin
2014-07-05 18:09:09 : <fredskuentz> my question is
2014-07-05 18:09:10 : "Hippy" left the channel.
2014-07-05 18:09:11 : <ronn> I may try to go by there Monday (closed all this weekend for the holiday) 'cuz i being right after the first of the month I have to go to the store and run other monthly errands.
2014-07-05 18:09:13 : <ronn> (Then of course I'll be at least until Wed. pm Thurs AM recovering :()
2014-07-05 18:09:19 : <fredskuentz> does it have FOUR gull doors?
2014-07-05 18:09:20 : <Lensman> Personally, I think the gull-wing door are a marketing gimmick.
2014-07-05 18:09:28 : <fredskuentz> they only show the rear open
2014-07-05 18:09:46 : <fredskuentz> ronn
2014-07-05 18:09:50 : <fredskuentz> give me your email
2014-07-05 18:09:55 : <Lensman> No, only the rear 2 doors are "Falcon wing". That is, they fold in the middle, unlike gull wing doors.
2014-07-05 18:10:07 : <fredskuentz> so how do the front open?
2014-07-05 18:10:17 : <Alex_A> going back for a while
2014-07-05 18:10:21 : <Alex_A> afk
2014-07-05 18:10:38 : <Alex_A> damn autocorrect
2014-07-05 18:10:40 : <ronn> Hippy's gone, but I have to wonder about going via Alabama and Christchurch, esp. if those stops are in sequence . . .
2014-07-05 18:11:04 : <fredskuentz> ronn ronn ronn
2014-07-05 18:13:27 : <fredskuentz> lens, finally found a pic of the X with all doors open
2014-07-05 18:13:27 : <fredskuentz> http://newsimages.motoring.co.uk/new-tesla-model-x-electric-suv-63987-1.jpg
2014-07-05 18:13:31 : <fredskuentz> bah
2014-07-05 18:13:52 : <fredskuentz> Lens, the RW graphic novel that looks like magna is NOT the one I remember
2014-07-05 18:14:01 : <fredskuentz> the one I remember was more like R Crumb
2014-07-05 18:14:13 : <Lensman> No point to having Falcon wing doors in the front. Supposedly Falcon doors allow easier access to 3rd row seats... you can step in while standing up to access 3rd row. Also, child seats are never used in the front. By law, must be in the back seat.
2014-07-05 18:14:41 : <Lensman> I don't know "R Crumb", sorry.
2014-07-05 18:14:58 : <fredskuentz> think fritz the cat?
2014-07-05 18:15:02 : <fredskuentz> 70s porn comics
2014-07-05 18:15:45 : <Lensman> Look, I love Tesla Motors, but if you gave me a Model X, I'd try to trade it for a Model S. I think the Model S looks sexy, and I have no desire to own a crossover, which is just a wannabe SUV.
2014-07-05 18:16:18 : <Lensman> Okay, I've seen Fritz the Cat. Many many many years ago.
2014-07-05 18:16:37 : <Lensman> As I recall there was some real style there.
2014-07-05 18:17:02 : <ronn> Last time I mentioned "fritz" I got accused of referring to Nazis . . .
2014-07-05 18:17:12 : <fredskuentz> this manga stuff is not only ugly
2014-07-05 18:17:23 : <fredskuentz> I can't even tell where in the story they are
2014-07-05 18:17:32 : <Lensman> Interestingly, some are saying that the Model X might outsell the Model S. It would astonish me if this is true, but reportedly the pre-orders on the Model X are racking up faster than the Model S pre-orders.
2014-07-05 18:17:52 : <fredskuentz> http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication6/v4/ca/9d/04/ca9d0409-821d-6b0...
2014-07-05 18:18:58 : <Lensman> Fred, that's the screen shot I was looking at too. That's what I called low-quality Manga. Maybe you judge it differently?
2014-07-05 18:19:14 : <fredskuentz> yes
2014-07-05 18:19:25 : <fredskuentz> I think 'low quality manga' is far too kind
2014-07-05 18:19:38 : <fredskuentz> I'd go for 'retarded child with broken arm pigshit'
2014-07-05 18:19:54 : <fredskuentz> available on itunes
2014-07-05 18:20:07 : <fredskuentz> I also found images of bald people
2014-07-05 18:20:26 : <fredskuentz> http://a3.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication2/v4/7d/e7/2d/7de72d01-2514-575...
2014-07-05 18:20:29 : <Lensman> LOL!
2014-07-05 18:20:36 : <Lensman> So you don't really disagree, then.
2014-07-05 18:20:38 : <fredskuentz> http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication2/v4/7b/cd/12/7bcd125a-5fed-496...
2014-07-05 18:20:48 : <fredskuentz> no, I find this embarrassingly bad
2014-07-05 18:21:07 : <fredskuentz> this is something that you'd be proud of if your 12 year old son did it for a class project
2014-07-05 18:21:29 : <fredskuentz> http://a2.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication/v4/19/6e/af/196eafd1-da33-5497...
2014-07-05 18:21:33 : <ronn> Bill Seinkewitcz (sp?) when he did New Mutants with a broken arm back in the 80s bad? Nah . . .
2014-07-05 18:21:33 : <fredskuentz> what the tanj is that?
2014-07-05 18:21:47 : <fredskuentz> flycycles with fusion flame engines?
2014-07-05 18:22:53 : <Lensman> Okay, I blew up the image enuff to read some of the words. Nessus is saying "Under no circumstances are you to land". So it's early in the story, when they are looking at the underside of the Ring.
2014-07-05 18:24:03 : <fredskuentz> it's not nessus
2014-07-05 18:24:08 : <fredskuentz> it's a hologram of chyron
2014-07-05 18:24:09 : <fredskuentz> :D
2014-07-05 18:24:17 : <fredskuentz> I think
2014-07-05 18:24:23 : <fredskuentz> here's all of it
2014-07-05 18:24:24 : <fredskuentz> https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/ringworld-graphic-novel-part/id83765288...
2014-07-05 18:24:52 : <ronn> So where's "Four hours flying down and four to go."?
2014-07-05 18:24:55 : <fredskuentz> it comes out in 3 days
2014-07-05 18:25:05 : <Lensman> Hmm, I think they took the description of Nessus as "Cecil the Sea-sick Sea Serpent" a little too literally. Also, having Speaker continually give a toothy grin shows the artist didn't actually read the book.
2014-07-05 18:25:06 : <fredskuentz> ronn, you should have email
2014-07-05 18:25:16 : <fredskuentz> lens, yes to both
2014-07-05 18:25:28 : <fredskuentz> and ... teela should have raven hair
2014-07-05 18:25:42 : <fredskuentz> and louis a buzz cut
2014-07-05 18:27:35 : <Lensman> Well, apparently Teela can and does change her hair color daily, so I'm not certain that is a mistake.
2014-07-05 18:27:44 : <fredskuentz> huh?
2014-07-05 18:27:51 : <fredskuentz> she's in costume at the party
2014-07-05 18:28:00 : <fredskuentz> and she has raven hair the whole after
2014-07-05 18:28:05 : <Lensman> Body paints, Fred. "Flatlander".
2014-07-05 18:28:17 : <fredskuentz> not once they depart
2014-07-05 18:28:26 : <ronn> Only for Apple machines, apparently . . .
2014-07-05 18:28:31 : <fredskuentz> "they stripped all the paints to prepare for space"
2014-07-05 18:28:53 : <fredskuentz> Larry specifically says that, and then describes 'em again
2014-07-05 18:29:06 : <fredskuentz> ronn, for itunes
2014-07-05 18:29:13 : <Lensman> Well, I know Louis does describe her sans body paints at one point as having raven hair, but to suggest she goes the entire months- or year-long adventure on the Ring without ever again chainging her hair color, seems to be an overstatement.
2014-07-05 18:29:16 : <fredskuentz> that doesn't mean apple only
2014-07-05 18:29:29 : <fredskuentz> lens, not given that THE FREAKING BOOKS SAYS IT
2014-07-05 18:29:51 : <fredskuentz> she's a raven haired beauty in the flycycle intercom
2014-07-05 18:30:16 : <fredskuentz> how would she change her hair on the ringworld, once they're off the liar?
2014-07-05 18:30:35 : <Lensman> It's called "luggage", Fred.
2014-07-05 18:30:41 : <fredskuentz> no, it's not
2014-07-05 18:30:51 : <Lensman> Just as well ask how she could change clothes.
2014-07-05 18:31:11 : <fredskuentz> sigh. I give up. You've gone into 'stupid' mode.
2014-07-05 18:31:26 : <Lensman> And anyway, the screenshot I'm looking at is set on the /Liar/, not after they left it.
2014-07-05 18:31:54 : <fredskuentz> how do you think she's changing her hair in stasis, on the longshot?
2014-07-05 18:32:16 : <Lensman> You're being silly now, Fred.
2014-07-05 18:32:27 : <fredskuentz> No, I'm being accurate.
2014-07-05 18:32:35 : <fredskuentz> She's got the wrong color hair in every shot.
2014-07-05 18:32:43 : <fredskuentz> She's got it on the fleet of worlds
2014-07-05 18:32:51 : <fredskuentz> having just gotten off the Long Shot
2014-07-05 18:33:02 : <Lensman> I'm suggesting she might have changed hair color aboard the /Liar/, not when she was on the /Long Shot/!
2014-07-05 18:33:21 : <fredskuentz> She's got the wrong color hair on the fleet of worlds
2014-07-05 18:33:27 : <fredskuentz> having just gotten off the long shot
2014-07-05 18:33:32 : <Lensman> Yeah, on the Fleet, before boarding the /Liar/.
2014-07-05 18:33:40 : <fredskuentz> yes. that's wrong.
2014-07-05 18:33:48 : <fredskuentz> and she's got it on the flycycles.
2014-07-05 18:33:51 : <fredskuentz> that's wrong.
2014-07-05 18:34:00 : <Lensman> Before spending some days in her stateroom aboard the /Liar/. Presumably with luggage.
2014-07-05 18:34:01 : <fredskuentz> she has no instance of it NOT being wrong
2014-07-05 18:34:15 : <Lensman> Unless you think she wore the same clothes for a year or so. :)
2014-07-05 18:34:27 : <Lensman> Or was naked the entire time. :)
2014-07-05 18:34:31 : <fredskuentz> Okay, you're too fucking stupid to talk to
2014-07-05 18:34:36 : <fredskuentz> you should log off now
2014-07-05 18:34:56 : <Lensman> Tch. You need to adjust your meds, Fred.
2014-07-05 18:35:10 : <fredskuentz> Eat shit and die, sooby
2014-07-05 18:35:37 : <fredskuentz> Almost better yet, go read the freaking book
2014-07-05 18:35:52 : <fredskuentz> Don't argue from the bizarre fantasies in your head
2014-07-05 18:56:30 : <ronn> Um . . . didn't someone say on the mailing list a while back that they had read somewhere that Larry said that in the KS stories unless what clothing a character was wearing was explicitly specified the reader could assume s/he was naked?
2014-07-05 18:56:31 : <ronn> (Dunno if it was ever confirmed that Larry actually said that or not . . . )
2014-07-05 18:58:43 : "Alex_A" left the channel.
2014-07-05 18:58:56 : <Lensman> Ronn: Yeah, that's why I asked if Fred thought maybe Teela was naked for most of the story. I guess Fred thought I was being sarcastic, but then clearly Fred has shut his thinking down.
2014-07-05 18:59:39 : <Lensman> But I did find one instance in a KS story where Larry did not initially describe clothing, but later on there was a passing mention of one of the characters wearing some article. So that rule doesn't always apply.
2014-07-05 19:00:23 : <Lensman> ronn: As I recall, it was Carol (Phillips?) who said that.
2014-07-05 19:02:15 : <Lensman> Fred may be correct in saying that Larry never describes Teelas' hair as anything but black or "raven" for the rest of the story, after they leave Earth. My argument isn't so much that she must have changed hair color, as that I think there is some room there for artistic license. Not so with a grinning Kzin: That's an important plot point at least twice in the story!
2014-07-05 19:04:44 : <fredskuentz> I've not read that Ronn. I'd kind of doubt it, given how often he tells us whether the character is naked or not, or what they're wearing.
2014-07-05 19:05:14 : <fredskuentz> I might buy that the character, especially Louis, is by default nekkid in any scene where he's alone.
2014-07-05 19:05:44 : "Jim" joined the channel.
2014-07-05 19:09:05 : <ronn> FWIW, I considered that claim (tha Larry said everyone not othewise specified is naked) as "unconfirmed" and even "doubtful" because I don't think anyone could ever provide a cite nor asked Larry directly.
2014-07-05 19:09:07 : <ronn> Now the way the weather's been much of this week here nekkid may still feel overdressed. (A "cool front" arrived Thurs/early Fri. and made it nice for awhile, but it's already warming back up . . . )
2014-07-05 19:11:04 : <Lensman> I personally wouldn't dispute that Larry said that, but my guess is that if he did, it was meant to be taken in the context of a specific story or a specific set of stories, and not outside of that.
2014-07-05 19:18:54 : <fredskuentz> hey jim
2014-07-05 19:18:58 : <fredskuentz> welcome back
2014-07-05 19:19:01 : <Jim> hey
2014-07-05 19:19:04 : <fredskuentz> assuming it's the same jim
2014-07-05 19:19:05 : <fredskuentz> :D
2014-07-05 19:19:12 : <Jim> I am back
2014-07-05 19:19:44 : <ronn> Lens: That's reasonable. As I said, I don't think it was ever resolved . . .
2014-07-05 19:27:21 : "Foremost" left the channel.
2014-07-05 19:46:21 : <Lensman> Well, in skimming just now the sections of Rw where they are aboard the /Liar/ before it crashes, I'm not seeing any references to clothing at all. Might be interesting to ask Larry: Should we assume Louis and Teela were naked the entire time aboard the /Liar/, at least until it crashed? I can see arguments either way. You'd certainly feel safe aboard a Puppeteer-built ship. And Louis is comfortable around aliens in general.
2014-07-05 19:47:19 : <Lensman> Likewise, Teela is too innocent to be afraid of everything. But would Louis actually feel comfortable being naked around a Kzin, one which he already had two fight-or-flight confrontations with?
2014-07-05 19:47:44 : <Lensman> ...er, Teela is too innocent to be afraid of ANYTHING.
2014-07-05 19:48:54 : <Lensman> At any rate, even if there is no mention of luggage in the entire text of Rw, I do assume that Louis and Teela did bring some with them. Even if it was nothing more than personal toiletry articles and a jumpsuit or three.
2014-07-05 19:53:40 : <Lensman> Actually I do find an explicit mention of the Humans' luggage and clothing, in the scene on Nereid where Speaker tries to hijack the /Long Shot/.
2014-07-05 19:57:28 : <sean> thats at the fleet of worlds... when eveyone gets out of stasis
2014-07-05 19:58:34 : <sean> and it is really just a hunk of meat where the variable sword is hidden and a microwave oven.
2014-07-05 20:02:58 : <ronn> It's already established in "Neutron Star" that GP hulls are at least partially transparent to UV when the incoming flux is sufficiently high: whether cumulative exposure from whatever gets thru under more normal conditions would cause passengers to want clothes or sunscreen is another open question . . .
2014-07-05 20:07:22 : <Lensman> Sean: No, it's on Nereid before they put everyone except Louis into stasis. Louis is afraid Speaker is going to try again when they get to the Fleet, but he doesn't.
2014-07-05 20:07:43 : <Lensman> And no, it's not Speaker's luggage. Here's the actual quote, which is Speaker talking:
2014-07-05 20:08:47 : <Lensman> "You will all disrobe now, so that I may know that you are unarmed. When you have done so I will request the puppeteer to don his pressure suit. We two will board the Long Shot. Louis and Teela will stay behind, but I will take your clothing and your luggage and your pressure suits. I will disable this ship. ..."
2014-07-05 20:12:59 : "Dan" joined the channel.
2014-07-05 20:14:34 : <Dan> SOS! My desktop computer is stuck in an endless reboot cycle!
2014-07-05 20:15:00 : <fredskuentz> that ... can't be good
2014-07-05 20:15:11 : <Dan> Right.
2014-07-05 20:15:38 : <fredskuentz> I have no helpful suggestions for you, sorry
2014-07-05 20:15:52 : <Lensman> Dan: Watch the text that appears during boot carefully to see which function key to press to go into diagnostic mode. May be F8. Choose "Safe mode".
2014-07-05 20:15:53 : <Dan> The onlything that's different is I installed an Adobe Flash Player update a couple of days ago.
2014-07-05 20:16:00 : <fredskuentz> ugh
2014-07-05 20:16:09 : <fredskuentz> it's been bugging me to upgrade that
2014-07-05 20:16:15 : <fredskuentz> and I keep saying 'no'
2014-07-05 20:16:21 : <Lensman> At least that's what works for Windoz XP. Dunno if it's the same for later versions.
2014-07-05 20:16:26 : <fredskuentz> ronn, GP hulls pass visible light
2014-07-05 20:16:40 : <Dan> I tried that, Lens. And even Safe Mode goes back into the reboot.
2014-07-05 20:17:00 : <Dan> I'm still using XP, too.
2014-07-05 20:17:02 : <fredskuentz> Bey spent a bad few moments wondering if General Products had a client that could see X-rays ...
2014-07-05 20:17:10 : <Lensman> Dan: Wow. Then, like Fred, I have no helpful suggestions.
2014-07-05 20:17:55 : <Dan> I take it that Sean is off on the beach, or somewhere else inaccessable?
2014-07-05 20:18:18 : <Lensman> Yeah, GP hulls aren't just transparent to what human eyes use for visible light. If they were, then I don't think they would be transparent in even part of the UV spectrum. (And are we sure it's transparent to UV? An intense enough normal light would give you sunburn, even without UV, wouldn't it?)
2014-07-05 20:25:24 : <Lensman> ronn: Are you assuming a GP hull is partially transparent to (presumably lower energy) UV because Bey got sunburned in "Neutron Star"? Or does the story specifically mention UV?
2014-07-05 20:27:55 : <Lensman> Scan of the text doesn't seem to find "ultraviolet" or "UV".
2014-07-05 20:28:31 : "Lensman" left the channel.
2014-07-05 20:29:26 : "Lensman" joined the channel.
2014-07-05 20:29:42 : <Lensman> Tanj, closed too many windows.
2014-07-05 20:33:30 : <ronn> Yeah, it's gotta be short enough wavelength. Though of course one can get thermal burns from IR, or even absorbed radiation of any wavelength could be converted to heat which will burn you if you touch the surface that absorbed it.
2014-07-05 20:43:40 : <Jim> bye again
2014-07-05 20:43:56 : "Jim" left the channel.
2014-07-05 20:46:11 : <Lensman> ronn: Well, I don't know enough about what causes sunburn and blistering on human skin in reaction to radiation to have an informed opinion on the subject. I seriously doubt the hull is transparent to infrared. In the scene in Rw where they're getting so close to the sun that everyone dons goggles against the glare, what's heating up the inside of the ship isn't infrared radiation, it's just the fierce intensity of the visible light.
2014-07-05 20:46:54 : <Lensman> I suspect IRC cut off part of that. To repeat: In the scene in Rw where they're getting so close to the sun that everyone dons goggles against the glare, what's heating up the inside of the ship isn't infrared radiation, it's just the fierce intensity of the visible light. If the hull was transparent to IR, then I think they would have had much more trouble, and would have needed more projection than just goggles.
2014-07-05 20:48:44 : <Lensman> Near the end of "Neutron Star": The puppeteer president Insisted I be put in a hospital for observation. I didn't tight the idea. My face and hands were flaming red, with blisters rising, and I ached as though I'd been beaten.
2014-07-05 20:48:51 : <fredskuentz> http://youtu.be/a9KZ3jgbbmI
2014-07-05 20:49:03 : <fredskuentz> fireworks filmed from a drone
2014-07-05 20:49:46 : <Lensman> Seems to go along with the intense firce blue of the starlight as Bey is rounding the neutron star. So there certainly is an argument there that it was UV, certainly not that he was burned by contact with hot metal or anything inside the ship.
2014-07-05 20:53:24 : <ronn> My point was also that "not transparent" or "opaque" may in many RL cases actually mean "blocks 99.9..9%", so if you have a large enough flux incident on one side something measurable gets through on the other side. Whether GP hull material is actually a perfect 100% blocker of all wavelengths of EM radiation except those used by one of the customer races or just 99.9999% of the wavelengths...
2014-07-05 20:53:25 : <ronn> ...below, say 360 nm or whatever cutoff is chosen would make a difference in that case . . .
2014-07-05 20:54:42 : <ronn> fred: next time, fireworks dropped from a drone . . .
2014-07-05 20:54:43 : <ronn> (lit, not delivered by Amazon)
2014-07-05 20:55:41 : <Dan> OK, phoned Sean and caught him just before he went to bed. Got good advice, and have a couple of options. Got to write my Aphelion editorial tonight before I can do anything with the desktop PC. Thanks for all the help y'all offered, Guys!
2014-07-05 20:56:17 : "Dan" left the channel.
2014-07-05 20:56:48 : <Lensman> Consider the Rw superthermal laser hitting the /Liar/ and only burning off the outer wing. Was the survival, intact with no damage, of everything inside the GP hull due to the stasis field really activating within a millisecond (nanosecond?), or because the GP hull really is 100.0000000% reflective of X-ray radiation? Discuss.
2014-07-05 21:00:17 : <Lensman> .
2014-07-05 21:00:43 : <Lensman> Consider also that in Rw, Speaker discribed the superthermal laser as an "X-ray laser".
2014-07-05 21:02:34 : <ronn> Good question.
2014-07-05 21:02:36 : <ronn> BTW in a nanosecond light (or any EM radiation) travels 11.7 inches (roughly a foot) in vacuo, so either the hull is several feet thick, GP hull material has a huge refractive index (so light travels much slower) or it'd have to react faster than that . . .
2014-07-05 21:03:21 : <Lensman> Anyway, from "Neutron Star", when the Puppeteers say it really doesn't pass any radiation at all outside a certain spectrum (or limited spectrums), I assume that that is an accurate statement. Not just 99.9999999%.
2014-07-05 21:06:14 : <Lensman> I don't think it's a question of how far light travels before the stasis field kicks in. I think it's a question of how much energy is transferred to the living quarters before the stasis field kicks in. Objectively, the passengers saw the interior of the /Liar/ lit up like a lightbulb, so arguably the light traveled some distance inside before stasis activated.
2014-07-05 21:06:17 : <ronn> May bee, but if what Bey ends up with is a bad sunburn, it obviously passes some energy in the near UV . . .
2014-07-05 21:06:43 : <ronn> Point taken.
2014-07-05 21:08:01 : <Lensman> Ronn: Then the most plausible thing is that the Puppeteers or one of their client species sees into the near UV spectrum. As do wolves and dogs on Earth.
2014-07-05 21:08:17 : <Lensman> Not at all hard to believe.
2014-07-05 21:11:40 : <Lensman> Oops, I said "objectively" above; I meant "subjectively".
2014-07-05 21:14:14 : <Lensman> If we're gonna get all nitpicky, I suspect a quantitative analysis would show that the stasis field would need to kick in faster than the human eye can react, or else they would all be crispy crittered before their eyes would even register the change. That's an incredible amount of energy pouring in from the superthermal laser!
2014-07-05 21:16:14 : <Lensman> But " the /Liar/ lit up like the interior of a flashbulb" is great storytelling, so why nitpick?
2014-07-05 21:25:27 : <ronn> The nitpick is what I was thinking. But, then, the imagery is great, too . . .
2014-07-05 21:27:36 : <Lensman> If someone else brought that up and I felt it needed defending, I would ask this: Is Rw actually told from a third-person-omniscient narrative, as the grammar indicates? Or is it actually Louis Wu's personal account, told in third person by another writer? All the internal dialogue from Louis indicates it's the latter. And is there any scene in the story in which Louis isn't present? (Perhaps so, but right off the top of my head I can
2014-07-05 21:28:50 : <Lensman> If it's actually Louis' subjective experience, then "the /Liar/ lit up like the interior of a flashbulb" is something he actually experienced -after- the stasis field turned off... not before. He just -remembered- it happening as described.
2014-07-05 21:58:16 : "Lensman" left the channel.
2014-07-05 22:01:32 : <fredskuentz> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10500413_1...
2014-07-05 22:06:41 : <ronn> miaow
2014-07-05 22:08:28 : <fredskuentz> baby kzinti mind meld