March

[02:05] CrazyEddy has joined #knownspace
[08:50] Mike has joined #knownspace
[09:52] #knownspace> SeanS: what sounds good for breakfast?
[09:58] #knownspace> Akiraa: \o
[10:09] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Chilli
[10:22] #knownspace> SeanS: gf decided on Hardees instead
[10:29] #knownspace> SeanS: she sent me with a list of stuff to get her and the dog
[10:29] #knownspace> SeanS: dang dog eats better than i do
[12:10] sigmund has joined #knownspace
[12:12] #knownspace> sigmund: t
[13:12] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather 40601
[13:13] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ¤, 44.6? (7?), 30.39in (1026mb), (wind unknown) - KLOU 12:53, 1753Z
[14:09] Lensman has joined #knownspace
[14:17] #knownspace> Lensman: "Gronk."
[14:17] #knownspace> Lensman: The wall was not confused.
[14:23] NickE has joined #knownspace
[14:25] #knownspace> NickE: evenin'
[14:27] #knownspace> NickE: and I pronounce it Fsss - thhh- <pok noise made by closing lips rapidly together>
[14:27] #knownspace> NickE: Or Piss Pok if I'm in a hurry : -)
[14:48] #knownspace> SeanS: hi nick
[14:48] #knownspace> SeanS: about the same as me
[14:51] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather 40601
[14:51] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ¤, 44.6? (7?), 30.39in (1026mb), (wind unknown) - KLOU 12:53, 1753Z
[14:56] #knownspace> NickE: cold here, relatively, starting to frost already tonight (UK)
[14:56] #knownspace> NickE: christ, online across the planet and all we can talk about is the bloody weather : -)
[14:57] #knownspace> NickE: Suits me, I'm British : -)
[14:58] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: weather 75071
[14:59] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather 75071
[14:59] #knownspace> Outsider: No ICAO code found, sorry
[15:00] #knownspace> SeanS: i am just happy to see the sun. it has been gone a long time
[15:00] #knownspace> NickE: was actually sunny today, even some warmth in it for a bit
[15:02] #knownspace> SeanS: you can see a view off the porch if you browse to 204.118.75.100 large pic but it should upload fairly fast
[15:04] #knownspace> NickE: nice
[15:05] #knownspace> SeanS: took it a couple of days ago
[15:06] #knownspace> SeanS: whats a good web page editor? should ask mark but he problably just uses notepad or something ;)
[15:07] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: weather KTKI
[15:07] #knownspace> SeanS: put a period in front of it
[15:07] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather ktki
[15:07] #knownspace> Outsider: Cloudy, 66.2? (19?), 30.17in (1018mb), Moderate breeze 13kt (?) - KDAL 13:53, 1953Z
[15:07] #knownspace> SeanS: i envy the temperature
[15:08] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Feels colder, nights have been quite cold.
[15:08] #knownspace> SeanS: going down to like 24 tonight or so i think
[15:09] #knownspace> SeanS: nick is right... talking across the planet about the weather.
[15:09] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:10] #knownspace> SeanS: neal prichard set the topic.
[15:10] #knownspace> NickE: OK then. My son showed me Mass Effect 2 today. Impressive
[15:10] #knownspace> SeanS: game?
[15:10] #knownspace> SeanS: played neuromancer in dosbox the other day ;)
[15:11] #knownspace> Lensman: I, too, was surprised when it occurred to me the simplest pronunciation of "Phssthpok" was "Spock". Does Larry pronounce it so differently that the coincidence never occurred to him? Or is he just not a Trek fan at all?
[15:11] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Closest I can get is Pth-Pok with the o being silent.
[15:12] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm pretty sure the final "pok" is an attempt to reproduce the sound of a hard protector beak being snapped shut.
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: thats actually how i generally say it to another Niven savvy person
[15:12] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Well with the soft weapon being adapted into one of the animated series stories I am sure he is at least aware of it ;)
[15:12] #knownspace> SeanS: he has to be something of a fan of trek or he would of never given trek the kzinti
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: yes, but it's hard to do loud enough to sound convincing
[15:12] Larry has joined #knownspace
[15:12] #knownspace> SeanS: i guess we could ask him
[15:12] #knownspace> SeanS: hi larry
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: Talk of teh devil! : -)
[15:13] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Larry!
[15:13] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Lo' Larry.
[15:13] #knownspace> NickE: (my son says hi too)
[15:13] #knownspace> Lensman: And there's that treatment Larry did for a Trek script, "The Pastel Terror". Which I think, like "Down in Flames", was meant as an elaborate joke.
[15:13] #knownspace> Larry: Hi all. I say "Phssth" and pop my lips.
[15:13] #knownspace> NickE: So Larry, how do *you* pronounce Phssthpok?
[15:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi, Nick's son!
[15:14] #knownspace> NickE: wups, answer befor I finished typing : =-)
[15:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Ahhh! We have an official answer!
[15:14] #knownspace> Larry: I can't recall "The Pastel Terror".
[15:15] #knownspace> NickE: (Ben sez Hi lens)
[15:15] dmac44 has joined #knownspace
[15:15] #knownspace> dmac44: Hi all.
[15:15] #knownspace> SeanS: hi dmac
[15:17] #knownspace> SeanS: not usually silent this long with larry in the room
[15:17] #knownspace> NickE: LArry, how's the next Worlds book going with Ed?
[15:17] #knownspace> Lensman: Larry, in "The Pastel Terror" you had Kirk convincing Spock it was his duty to mate with as many human woman as possible, to "improve the race". Also, you ended the fanzine article thus: "Further, the script involves destroying the /Enterprise/ a piece at a time, and allowing Spock to betray Kirk twice, for the most logical of reasons."
[15:18] #knownspace> NickE: That vaguley rings a bell
[15:18] #knownspace> Lensman: A link to the online version of "The Pastel Terror", which Larry kindly gave permission to be posted at the LarryNiven.org site:
[15:18] #knownspace> SeanS: i dont think i have ever read it
[15:18] #knownspace> Larry: Ed and I have finished book 4, "Betrayer of Worlds" Ed wants a break before we write any text for Book 5. We have some notes.
[15:18] #knownspace> Lensman: http: //www.larryniven.org/stories/pastel.shtml
[15:19] #knownspace> NickE: cool
[15:19] #knownspace> NickE: Ah, thanks lens, knew I'd seen it
[15:19] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Cool indeed, bring on the notes.
[15:20] #knownspace> Larry: I remember. "The Pastel TError" was a speech for Comic Con. Yeah, not quite serious.
[15:20] #knownspace> NickE: ah
[15:21] #knownspace> NickE: Fun though
[15:21] AgincourtDB has joined #knownspace
[15:21] #knownspace> Lensman: Definitely fun!
[15:22] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hello all
[15:22] nedry has joined #knownspace
[15:22] #knownspace> SeanS: hi dave
[15:22] #knownspace> SeanS: mark
[15:22] #knownspace> NickE: likewise
[15:22] #knownspace> nedry: hi sean
[15:22] #knownspace> Lensman: I especially like the ending, which was *never* used on any actual Trek show. At least, not that I recall.
[15:22] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Sean: #knownspace isn't in the list that pops up when you log onto the server with MIrc so I was cornfused
[15:22] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe
[15:22] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: I like the topic
[15:22] #knownspace> SeanS: mirc uses a default list. guess you could add it
[15:23] #knownspace> NickE: and we have an official answer : -)
[15:23] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: I bought the Protector audiobook. "Pssthpok" is the first word in the book. When the guy reading did it I was like, "What the hell was that??"
[15:23] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe
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[15:23] #knownspace> SeanS: hi hoboken
[15:24] #knownspace> NickE: greetings programme
[15:24] #knownspace> Hoboken: laughs at "is pronounced Spock"
[15:24] #knownspace> Hoboken: Hi everyone, long time
[15:25] #knownspace> Hoboken: my wife pronounces "Phssthpok" as a dirty thing
[15:25] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: how's it going
[15:25] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm really glad I'm using Mozilla/FireFox's add-on for IRC, Chatzilla. So now I just type "irc" into the browser's URL field, and it automatically takes me here. The only bad thing about Chatzilla is it doesn't preserve all the chat from when you log on. I was going to quote a bit from last month's chat in an e-mail to Jon Aaron, and discovered to my shock that the quote I wanted had disappeared!
[15:25] #knownspace> Lensman: Speaking of which: Sean, is the transcript of last month's chat up at the LarryNiven.org site?
[15:25] #knownspace> Hoboken: AGH!
[15:25] #knownspace> SeanS: i sent it to mark
[15:25] #knownspace> nedry: I'm pretty sure I've put it up
[15:25] #knownspace> Hoboken: So the hot topic of this month's chat is... last month's chat?
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:26] #knownspace> Hoboken: Hi DBA, Sean, Nick, Lensman, Larry... LARRY?!?
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: oh yeah
[15:26] #knownspace> Larry: Hi Hoboken.
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: hence the official answer on pronunciation : -)
[15:26] #knownspace> SeanS: ed lerner has gotten in the habit of stopping by as well. ;)
[15:27] #knownspace> Hoboken: Wow, now I know. My wife will be disappointed.
[15:27] #knownspace> SeanS: lol
[15:27] #knownspace> NickE: He tends to come by later
[15:27] #knownspace> Lensman: No, the hot topic is "how to pronounce 'Phssthpok'... and Niven-related "Star Trek".
[15:27] #knownspace> Hoboken: Larry, I loved "Destroyer of Worlds" but I'm mad at you for using Alice Jordan. I was gonna use her in my Man-Kzin Wars story.
[15:27] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Hi Larry : -)
[15:27] #knownspace> NickE: We hypothesis that Larry and Ed are the same person as they never seem to be on at the same tiem : -)))))
[15:28] #knownspace> SeanS: they have been here at the same time.
[15:28] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: All the "...of Worlds" were excellent. Breathed knew life into Known Space
[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: (I know : -)
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Speaking of the latter, there's also the comic strip "The Wristwatch Plantation", which was written or co-written by Larry, and involves Kzinti in the Trek universe. However, there is no actual wristwatch-growing plantation in the story. : (
[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: I've enjoyed thenm all, esp Destroyer
[15:29] #knownspace> Lensman: My favorite is /Fleet of Worlds/.
[15:29] #knownspace> Hoboken: The "...of Worlds" stories are the "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead" of Known Space. (Though some have compared them to "Forrest Gump" instead)
[15:29] #knownspace> SeanS: juggler has been my favorite so far. nice to see a different perspective on a bunch of favorites.
[15:29] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: haha. R&GAD is great
[15:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Ed calls them the "Secret History of Known Space". I think that sums it up rather well.
[15:29] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: but it's not a good analogy
[15:29] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: R&G are minor characters observing big events
[15:29] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: in "
[15:30] #knownspace> NickE: Secret History...bit like the DC comics : -)
[15:30] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: in the of worlds books, the stuff happening 'behind the scenes' is bigger than the stuff we knew, in many cases
[15:30] #knownspace> NickE: Good analogy though
[15:30] #knownspace> Larry: "The Wristwatch Plantation" (with Sharman DiVono) had little tool-making slaves.
[15:30] #knownspace> NickE: Oooh wonder where that idea came fom/went
[15:31] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: haha
[15:31] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: <--is scratching his head
[15:31] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: they ended up in an air tank
[15:31] #knownspace> Hoboken: Ok, how about this: "...of Worlds" are to Known Space as "Back to the Future II" is to "Back to the Future."
[15:31] #knownspace> NickE: Plus aliens that ended up in Draco Tavern tales
[15:31] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Hoboken: just as long as they're not to known space as "Highlander II" is to "Highlander"
[15:31] #knownspace> NickE: oh ghod yes
[15:31] #knownspace> SeanS: evil thought
[15:32] #knownspace> Hoboken: Plus the "...so I joined the flippin Navy" line that ended up in "mote," IIRC.
[15:32] #knownspace> NickE: no danger of that thankfully
[15:32] #knownspace> Hoboken: There is no "Highlander II."
[15:32] #knownspace> SeanS: the movies are just like the concept. there can be only one
[15:32] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Hoboken: right. what was I thinking.
[15:32] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe
[15:32] #knownspace> SeanS: remaking the original acording to imdb
[15:32] #knownspace> Hoboken: high 5 Aggie
[15:32] #knownspace> NickE: same with The Matrix
[15:32] #knownspace> Lensman: Hoboken: "Yes" on the "Back to the Future" analogy, but B2tF2 was sucky compared to B2tF1. Which FOW definitely is not!
[15:32] #knownspace> SeanS: why i have no idea
[15:33] #knownspace> NickE: no, FOW was like coming home
[15:33] #knownspace> SeanS: most definately
[15:33] #knownspace> Lensman: "Highlander II" is a myth perpetuated by some who want to destroy all that's good about "Highlander". Just like "Galactica 1980". True Fans know it doesn't exist.
[15:33] #knownspace> Hoboken: Well said Lensman
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: Larry, have you ever done Dragon Con in Atlanta?
[15:34] #knownspace> Hoboken: So, District 9. Best picture Oscar? Discuss.
[15:34] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: "Highlander II"? What's "Highlander II"?
[15:34] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: haven't seen it Hoboken
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: Big media based con, but iwth lots of tracks including litereary
[15:34] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: just saw Zombieland though
[15:34] #knownspace> Hoboken: Aggie, don't go there. Just... don't.
[15:34] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: very good
[15:34] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: not as good as Sean of the Dead
[15:34] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: but good
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: Ohh District 9, just got the DVD for birthday. Great stuff
[15:35] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Oh, ye mean 'Spaced' the movie there Agin.
[15:35] #knownspace> Hoboken: gonna have to rent it.
[15:35] #knownspace> SeanS: larry did a con in chattanooga some years ago. i could not make it but had planned to go and meat dan hollifield, steve sloan and another lister as well as larry and jerry.
[15:35] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Merlin: Spaced?
[15:35] #knownspace> SeanS: meet
[15:35] #knownspace> Larry: I've been at Dragon Con twice. Once I was ill, had to be treated as fragile. Once, subbed as GOH for Roger Zelazny who had died. Had a wonderful time, both.
[15:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Dragon Con started out as a gaming con, but like Topsy it "growed" to an enormous multi-track con. I understand there *is* a traditional SF literary con inside the con but I've heard it kinda gets lost in everything else. Never been there myself.
[15:36] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes, Spaced.
[15:36] #knownspace> Hoboken: Any cons in or near NYC in the forseeable future?
[15:36] #knownspace> NickE: well, I'm still hoping we can arrange a meet as I'm still coming to Dragon Con thos year
[15:36] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Spaced is good. I'm just confused as to how it popped up
[15:36] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe
[15:36] #knownspace> NickE: Spaced is made of awesome. A movie would be a *bad* idea
[15:36] #knownspace> SeanS: i can probably make dragon con
[15:36] #knownspace> NickE: Yay!
[15:36] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Sean of the Dead, same cast.
[15:37] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: oh, duh: I was seeing "Spaceballs" in my head
[15:37] #knownspace> Hoboken: There goes the planet
[15:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Hoboken: There are plenty of online listings of SF conventions. But often it's hard to tell from the description what's a fan-oriented convention, and what's a commercial-oriented "media con".
[15:37] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: -Falls out of chair-
[15:37] #knownspace> NickE: Or it could be the replacement for SPaced series 3 that Pegg was talking about for years
[15:37] #knownspace> Hoboken: So let me ask, any GOOD cons in the NYC area in the forseeable future?
[15:37] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: never seen the series
[15:38] #knownspace> NickE: feckin hilarious
[15:38] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Must do then.
[15:38] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: looks good
[15:38] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: will check it out
[15:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Hoboken: You can ask on the SMOFS e-mail list.
[15:38] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: And don't (as a Charter might suggest) Skip to the end.
[15:38] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:38] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe not to worry
[15:39] #knownspace> Hoboken: Man and wife! Say man and wife!
[15:39] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: ok so I have a list etiquette question
[15:39] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Man and Wife, but why are we refrencing The Princess Bride in a Spaced discussion?
[15:39] #knownspace> NickE: ah but Spaced uses te same pharse in a different way (probably as a nod to TPB)
[15:40] #knownspace> Hoboken: <---random neuron firing
[15:40] #knownspace> NickE: There were Soooo many movie refs in that series
[15:40] #knownspace> Hoboken: Aggie, let's hear it, I could use a laugh
[15:40] #knownspace> Lensman: There are two seasons of a SF comedy starring Simon Pegg which I not only have not seen, but have never *heard* of?!?! I must correct this situation immediately or sooner!
[15:40] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Ah, happens often in my head as well.
[15:40] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: lol ok
[15:40] #knownspace> Hoboken: Lensman I'm with you
[15:40] #knownspace> NickE: It's not SF
[15:40] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes Lens, do it TODAY!
[15:40] #knownspace> SeanS: havent heard of it either
[15:41] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: It is geek culture related though.
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: Its mad surreal Brit comedy at it's best
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: oh very geek
[15:41] #knownspace> Hoboken: Better than "The YOung Ones"?
[15:41] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes, imo.
[15:41] #knownspace> Hoboken: whoa.
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: Yes, I'd concurr
[15:41] #knownspace> Lensman: Maybe like "Big Bang Theory" only actually worth watching?
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: loved TYO but Spaced is so much more polished
[15:42] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: so I've been writing short and short-short fiction on a blog for about a year. Some of you know about this. So I've put together a little 124-page on-demand book on Createspace (Amazon's on-demand service) and put it up for sale. It has SF, Fantasy, and Zombie Apocalypse fiction. The question is: would it be bad form to announce it to the list?
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: Kinda
[15:42] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Need to track down The IT Croud myself, been hearing talk of it more again recently.
[15:42] #knownspace> Hoboken: My butt is more polished than "The YOung Ones!"
[15:42] #knownspace> SeanS: dave, i think the list would enjoy it
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: IT crowd also vey funny
[15:42] #knownspace> Hoboken: Aggie, if Ed can announce books on the list, so can you.
[15:42] #knownspace> SeanS: it crowd is awesome
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: (kinda comment reffered to SPaced not announcing)
[15:43] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: lol well, his books are published, mine is *vanity* published hehe
[15:43] #knownspace> Hoboken: <--laughing a the phrase "Zombie Apocalypse Fiction"... opposed to?
[15:43] #knownspace> SeanS: nick, any more it crowd scheduled?
[15:43] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: as opposed to zombie apocalypse nonfiction
[15:43] #knownspace> Lensman: Aggie, I can't imagine why it would be "bad form".
[15:43] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: as in, "How to survive a zombie apocalypse"
[15:43] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe
[15:44] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Lensman: well, you never know
[15:44] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: just wanted to be sure
[15:44] #knownspace> Hoboken: I'm off to the playground with my 4-year-old. Normally this wouldn't be a big deal but my town is doing St. Patrick's Day today and the streets are choked with drunken "Kiss me I'm A Wannabes"
[15:44] #knownspace> SeanS: email sheen or carol.
[15:44] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[15:45] #knownspace> Lensman: But isn't web publishing "vanity publishing"? Just because you don't actually have to pay for it... That is, in money, altho certainly you do in time... Isn't my Incompleat Known Space Concordance "vanity publishing"?
[15:45] #knownspace> Hoboken: Larry, keep 'em coming. We'll keep a-readin'!
[15:45] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: well, some don't consider putting stuff up on the net 'publishing' at all
[15:45] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: though I disagree
[15:45] #knownspace> NickE: I suppose, but sureky done more for teh pleasure of making it
[15:45] #knownspace> SeanS: carol phillips says she will drop by
[15:45] #knownspace> NickE: oh good, not cahteed with Carol in a while
[15:46] #knownspace> Lensman: Aggie: Yes, I meant to throw that out as a topic for debate, not an assertion that it's true.
[15:46] #knownspace> Hoboken: Also, Larry, please visit the Bibliography at http: //news.larryniven.org/biblio/main.asp if you haven't already
[15:46] #knownspace> NickE: (and my typing - spober, not getting any better)
[15:46] #knownspace> NickE: sober
[15:46] #knownspace> NickE: maybe I should crck a beer : -)
[15:46] #knownspace> Hoboken: I like spober. Much more fitting
[15:46] #knownspace> SeanS: i am just starting to 2 hand type again after breaking my arm so bear with my typos
[15:46] #knownspace> NickE: oh yeah, how is that?
[15:46] #knownspace> Larry: Haven't contacted Carol in some time. Welcome!
[15:47] #knownspace> Hoboken: I am one-hand typing too.... I've said too much.
[15:47] FlyingDragon has joined #knownspace
[15:47] #knownspace> Lensman: Looks like you're much too spober to me. Have a drink!
[15:47] #knownspace> NickE: And here she is
[15:47] #knownspace> Hoboken: Speak of the Carol!
[15:47] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hi Carol!
[15:47] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Hello!
[15:47] #knownspace> SeanS: probably in the splint for another week and then phys therapy
[15:47] #knownspace> NickE: Carol, you have impecable timing
[15:47] #knownspace> Hoboken: peck peck
[15:47] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Been out to Ninja school, and demonstration!!
[15:47] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Hello Larry! Hello eveyone else!!!!
[15:47] #knownspace> Hoboken: See, now THAT's why I love this list and its members.
[15:47] #knownspace> Lensman: Konichi-wa, Carol.
[15:48] #knownspace> Hoboken: Ni Hao!
[15:48] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Lens, is that Japanese?
[15:48] #knownspace> Larry: Hi, Carol!
[15:48] #knownspace> SeanS: phonetic japanese
[15:48] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: ;-)
[15:48] #knownspace> NickE: Cool. Both my girls are getting into Karate (which of cousre isn't Korean, but hey : -)
[15:48] #knownspace> Lensman: My round-eye *attempt* at Japanese for "Hello". Don't guarantee accuracy.
[15:48] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: coolness
[15:48] #knownspace> Hoboken: word
[15:49] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: There isn't any bettter art than Kuk Sool Won, but I've heard everyone thinks that about their art.
[15:49] #knownspace> NickE: probably true
[15:49] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: In Korean, we say something like Ahn Yohn Ha sa oh
[15:49] #knownspace> Lensman: I know it should be Korean, but since the Ninja tradition AFAIK started in Japan, I thought it appropriate.
[15:49] #knownspace> Hoboken: geseundtheit
[15:50] #knownspace> SeanS: my japanese is limited to what i remember reading in shogun a long time ago
[15:50] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I suspect everyone started defending themselves at about the same time, no matter where tehy were in the globe.
[15:50] #knownspace> Hoboken: So when I invent my time machine I should go back to just BEFORE that, and kick the crap out of EVERYONE!
[15:50] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:50] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[15:50] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I really don't think anyone can say they were the first to defend themselves. However, in Korean, the word is "In-jah" so I was developing my In-jah skills!!!!
[15:50] #knownspace> SeanS: just make sure you can see the flux capacitor
[15:51] #knownspace> Hoboken: fluxing!
[15:51] #knownspace> SeanS: : )
[15:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Hmmm I'm fairly certain that African martial art came later than the others, and is entirely derivative. Altho of course, just like every other school of martial arts, it *claims* to be the "sun source" from whence all others sprang. : )
[15:51] #knownspace> Hoboken: I'm off like a Prom dress. see y'all!
[15:51] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: bye : -)
[15:51] #knownspace> SeanS: have fun hoboken
[15:51] #knownspace> NickE: whatever works baby : -)
[15:52] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: My master says that when he was learning, every time they dropped a weapon, instead of doing pushups, or getting hit or killed if they were in battle, htey would say "In-jah" which means "Patience"
[15:52] #knownspace> NickE: TTFN
[15:52] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Leaving?????
[15:52] #knownspace> NickE: not me Hoboken
[15:52] #knownspace> Hoboken: I'll miss you most of all Scarecrow!
[15:52] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: CU, Hoboken
[15:52] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: lol
[15:52] #knownspace> Hoboken: there's no place like home, there's no place like home......
[15:52] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Shaaaaaaaaaaaane
[15:52] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:52] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: come back Shaaaaaaaane
[15:52] #knownspace> SeanS: i never leave. but then the server is 30 feet away. ;)
[15:53] #knownspace> Lensman: Cooooooome baaaaaaaack!
[15:53] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Nay Servers are like Spiders, never more than 2 feet from one.
[15:53] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Larry, what are you doing these days? I see Steve Barnes and Brenda COoper on Facebook all the time. I dont' suppose you really NEED another time sink.
[15:53] #knownspace> Lensman: (That's a reference to "The 7th Guest" as well as "Shane"; how's that for mixing genres?)
[15:54] #knownspace> SeanS: well, its in a closet in another room
[15:54] #knownspace> Larry: I'm on Facebook but haven't learned to use it.
[15:54] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: tell the server to come out of the closet. It doesn't have to live a lie.
[15:54] #knownspace> Lensman: : )
[15:54] Jim has joined #knownspace
[15:54] #knownspace> NickE: so am I but I don't use it much
[15:54] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[15:55] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: I well remember 7th guest, as well as the frustration of tring to get it running with a modern video card recently.
[15:55] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Larry: just block all apps and you'll be fine
[15:55] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I'll look for you Larry.....
[15:55] #knownspace> SeanS: i am on facebook right now
[15:55] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe
[15:55] #knownspace> NickE: oh gosh yes, don't use anny apps
[15:55] #knownspace> NickE: not my cup of tea at all
[15:55] #knownspace> SeanS: i just use it to see status updates
[15:56] #knownspace> SeanS: half of them are carol begging for help in mafia wars
[15:56] #knownspace> NickE: it has it's uses
[15:56] #knownspace> NickE: hehe
[15:56] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Sorry, but people who play Mafia wars LIKE those notices. THey get more XP
[15:56] #knownspace> SeanS: i used facebook to let carol know that larry was in here
[15:56] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: LOL!
[15:56] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: I've stopped announcing my Bejeweled high scores hehe
[15:57] #knownspace> NickE: I have yet to twitter though (mere thought appalls me)
[15:57] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I'd like to have a home page for each ap, and only see notices from that ap there, and no notices for apps anywhere else.
[15:57] #knownspace> Jim: hi
[15:57] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: twitter rules
[15:58] #knownspace> SeanS: i have not twittered either
[15:58] #knownspace> SeanS: hi jim
[15:58] #knownspace> NickE: that would be better Carol
[15:58] #knownspace> Jim: tweeter?
[15:58] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Jim
[15:58] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: I've gotten like four celebrite retweets
[15:58] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: because I'm just that amusing
[15:58] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe
[15:58] #knownspace> Lensman: I guess I'm impossibly old-fashioned. Don't do FB or tweet.
[15:58] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Ooo, Larry doesn't have FRIENDS< he has FANS.
[15:58] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: And doesn't know Spaced : P
[15:58] #knownspace> NickE: well yeah : -)
[15:59] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe
[15:59] #knownspace> Lensman: Merlin: Have you seen "Defying Gravity"? All 13 episodes?
[15:59] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Nay have not.
[15:59] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: oh god lets not get into another Defying Gravity session haha
[15:59] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Nice pic of you Larry. Do you still look like that? It has been a LONG time. Personally, I"m wasting away, and have hopes of doig MORE of that wasting!
[15:59] #knownspace> NickE: Dont!!!
[15:59] #knownspace> Lensman: Well then, you've got nuthin'!
[16:00] #knownspace> NickE: awful
[16:00] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Have you seen Doctor Who from the Beginning?
[16:00] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: I'm thinking it's not this Larry Niven http: //www.facebook.com/home.php#!/profile.php?id=100000716738398&ref=search&si...
[16:00] #knownspace> Lensman: I refused to be muzzled by naysayers. "Defying Gravity" was one of the best SF dramas ever on TV, and you can now watch all 13 episodes online! *Legally*, I mean.
[16:00] #knownspace> Larry: The Facebook picture is a couple of years old.
[16:01] #knownspace> SeanS: i have seen the first episode.... well the 4 part that started with an unearly child
[16:01] #knownspace> NickE: No, but I do remember Pat Troughton as teh Dr
[16:01] #knownspace> NickE: I've seen early Bill Hartnel eps on vid
[16:01] #knownspace> NickE: the ons that survive
[16:02] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: More of Billy boys stuff survived than did Troughton. Damn ye BBC.
[16:02] #knownspace> NickE: Almost all the audio has now bene recovered for all eps where vid has been lsost
[16:02] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Wait, I found a fan page, not YOUR page. You use organlegger?
[16:02] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes, audio survived.
[16:03] #knownspace> Larry: Yes, I use "organlegger".
[16:03] #knownspace> NickE: amazing story of how some of it was tracked down, fans with reeel to reel tape and a mike recording off the tel;ly mainly
[16:03] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: http: //www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/profile.php?id=762259588&ref=ts
[16:04] #knownspace> Lensman: http: //www.facebook.com/pages/Larry-Niven/264831812862?filter=1
[16:04] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: TY. My browser is taking its time.
[16:04] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I'd switch to my noteboook, but I'd have to get here through KNown Space instead of Trillian.
[16:04] #knownspace> NickE: thats the one
[16:05] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: ok fanned up
[16:05] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Larry, did you know I"ve been taking Korean Drumming classes? I demonstrated at the National Kuk Sool WOn Master's Exhibition last year.
[16:06] #knownspace> Larry: Drumming classes: is that what it sounds like?
[16:06] #knownspace> NickE: LArry, do you wnat a whole load of friend requests before I click the yes button?
[16:06] #knownspace> SeanS: both those pages say not run by larry niven
[16:06] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I hit a drum with sticks for an hour.
[16:07] #knownspace> Larry: NickE: no.
[16:07] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[16:07] #knownspace> NickE: didn't think so. NP
[16:07] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: So here it comes the sound of drums.
[16:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Sorry! That explains why Carol is still looking then.
[16:07] EML has joined #knownspace
[16:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Welcome Ed!
[16:07] #knownspace> SeanS: and ed enters
[16:07] #knownspace> Jim: the 2 are in the same chat at the same time
[16:08] #knownspace> EML: Hi all!
[16:08] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Ed
[16:08] #knownspace> SeanS: Hi ed
[16:08] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Actually, it is called "Drum dancing" because you don't just stand there and drum, you twirl and go into different stances, and jump, and all sorts of things.
[16:08] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Hello, EML!!
[16:08] #knownspace> Lensman: So, when you sign on as Ed *and* Larry at the same time, does that mean you're using two computers simultaneously? Or just two browser windows?
[16:08] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hi Ed
[16:08] #knownspace> Larry: Dragon: I thought so, but wondered if it was a martial art I'd never heard of.
[16:08] #knownspace> NickE: shiny
[16:08] #knownspace> Larry: Hi, Ed.
[16:08] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: The sticks we use are actually weapons in martial arts.
[16:08] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Side by side monitors on the same Cray surely.
[16:09] #knownspace> NickE: dual purpose
[16:09] #knownspace> Lensman: Sounds majorly cool, Carol. I'd love to see a video!
[16:09] #knownspace> NickE: ooh yes
[16:09] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: They are called "Short staffs" or "Dahn Bongs" and are used for pressure point striking
[16:09] #knownspace> NickE: ouch
[16:09] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: There is one posted on FB, as well as on the national Kuk Sool web site.
[16:09] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: If you look for Vidoes of me on FB, you will come up with one.
[16:09] #knownspace> Jim: hehe
[16:09] #knownspace> NickE: k
[16:09] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Bong is KOrean for stick, or staff.
[16:10] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: hehe I know
[16:11] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I"m learning the form for double short staff now. I have actually been shown it all, but I have memorization issues.
[16:11] #knownspace> Lensman: But it was a good joke anyway.
[16:11] #knownspace> EML: Re the topic ... I'll be wacky ... the way to pronounce "Thssthfok" is "Mr. T."
[16:11] #knownspace> Larry: Drum dancing: exciting.
[16:11] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: SInce I can't fall or spar, and have only recently been allowed to start up techniques, I have been getting a little more practice in my forms.
[16:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Ed: I'll have to remember that in my next e-mail to Jon Aaron. Much easier to type!
[16:12] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: I pity the fool who can't pronounce Pssthpok
[16:12] #knownspace> SeanS: LOL
[16:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Actually, Jon has taken to writing "P-pok" and "T-fok".
[16:12] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[16:13] #knownspace> Lensman: See now, Louis had the right idea in shortening Halrloprillalar Hotrufan to "Prill".
[16:13] #knownspace> EML: My wife -- my first and favorite reader -- has a way of renaming all my unponoicably named characters
[16:13] #knownspace> SeanS: mark, remind me to send you this log... lot of people will probably want to see it.
[16:13] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Pssthpok & Thssthfok drum dancing on Pakhome to reenergize the sterile breeders? Sorry bad nuron.
[16:13] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Halrloprillalar Hotrufan is "H"
[16:14] #knownspace> EML: And when she acts up, Prill is a pill
[16:14] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: LOL at Merlin and Ed
[16:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Ed: So, when are we gonna get "Ruth Lerner's Guide to KS Pronunciation"?
[16:14] #knownspace> Lensman: : )
[16:15] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: In Kuk Sool, we get used to using up to 8 sylables when talking to certain people.
[16:15] #knownspace> EML: I'll see what I can do : -)
[16:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Prill = H.H. = Horatio Hornblower = Honor Harrington? : )
[16:16] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: All names are in a certain context, even more so, nicknames.
[16:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, Prill's full name appears to be 8-9 syllables.
[16:16] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: i tend to use Larry's City People names to name my wireless routers. So if you're wardriving around Maryland and your laptop sees 'Kawaresksenjajok', you're outside my house
[16:17] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: LOL
[16:17] #knownspace> SeanS: thats great
[16:17] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL! Wonderful Aggie.
[16:17] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Can you pronounce it????
[16:17] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: it was Glig.. etc. for a while. with (click) in the middle
[16:17] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: sure
[16:17] #knownspace> EML: When we *do* meet intelligent aliens, they may not even be so considerate as to communicate with sound waves.
[16:17] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: but I don't remember how to spell glig.. etc. right this second hehe
[16:18] #knownspace> SeanS: the first irc server i did for the list was Phssthpok. the second, this one, is Brennan. I guess when it goes to another PC it will be Truesdale.
[16:18] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes, it will be smell based communication. And we will all be sending out mating readiness signals. Gads.
[16:18] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: EML, interseting thought. I guess htat is one reason whey YOU are the SF writer.
[16:18] #knownspace> Lensman: Back to semaphore signals!
[16:18] #knownspace> Larry: It's raining. Marilyn tells me the pool cover has been pulled loose from its mountings.
[16:18] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: our pheremones wouldn't work on aliens hehe
[16:19] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: You have a STRONG winde there, Larry
[16:19] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Larry, hurry up and fix it or your pool will get wet
[16:19] #knownspace> SeanS: you can see my pool by pointing your browser at 204.118.75.100
[16:19] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Nay not pheremones, lack of proper soap.
[16:19] #knownspace> EML: Light. Ultrasound. Sign language
[16:19] #knownspace> SeanS: carol has been in my pool
[16:20] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Sean, if the water isn't the same, can it be said to be the same pool????
[16:20] #knownspace> SeanS: tis the lock 4 pool
[16:20] #knownspace> SeanS: so yes
[16:20] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: DOes this show drum dancing?? http: //www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000716738398&ref=search&sid=669313733...
[16:20] #knownspace> Lensman: "Did kryptonian women carry some subtle mating cue at appropriate times of the year? Whatever it is, Lois Lane probably didn't have it. We may speculate that she smells wrong, less like a kryptonian woman than like a terrestrial monkey."
[16:21] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: If so, THIS whould show Kuk SOol Jedi skit: http: //www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1188310341221&subj=1296925103
[16:22] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Kuk Sool Jedi: http: //www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000716738398&ref=search&sid=669313733...
[16:22] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: SOME men LIKE to mate with something very foreign.
[16:22] #knownspace> Lensman: Of course it's the same pool. Just as with my granddaddy's axe; I've replaced the handle five times and the head twice, but it's still my granddaddy's axe! : )
[16:22] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: goats for example
[16:23] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Also, sometimes men are only attracted to a certain race.
[16:23] #knownspace> SeanS: EML, i remember reading a book many moons ago where the locals communicated with radio and when the first guy said hi, they all said hi back and fried him .
[16:23] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: I have a friend who will only date Japanese girls
[16:23] #knownspace> Jim: so?
[16:23] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: but he's a pig
[16:23] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Did anyone look at my videos?
[16:23] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: so technically they're dating outside their race too
[16:24] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I suspect my master dated several Korean women before he found one that would marry him.
[16:24] #knownspace> EML: SeanS: in a way, that's the punchline of a short story of mine: "At the Watering Hole."
[16:24] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: I like the drum one Carol
[16:24] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Was once watchign hism demo with another woman, and he said she was his "partner" before he married.
[16:25] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: TY! I've been learning the Three drum routine too! That one has more spinning.
[16:25] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: the second one is private
[16:25] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Ah, sorry.
[16:25] #knownspace> dmac44: A lot of kryptonite metors ahve fallen to earth. Passing though the atmosphere they must have give off nano sized particles which would be inhaled. So, Lois Lane's metor rock powers must be to attract the Aplha male Kryptonian. : )
[16:25] #knownspace> Lensman: Tastes in choosing mates are highly individual. Personally I do notice that I tend to be attracted to people who vaguely resemble my mother, especially in hair color. But I also find the polynesian/asian look to be exotically attractive.
[16:25] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: She is very worried about copyright issues.
[16:25] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: third one too : -(
[16:26] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: But since everyone gave permission for it to be published, and she made sure of that. it should be more available. I'll talk to her about that.
[16:26] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Marianne Dyson and I and another second degree wrote a really cute martial arts skit and drug the GoH into it with us.
[16:27] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: That was one of Bedfor's Galactic series books
[16:27] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Marianne Dyson was almost taken over by the dark side of the force!
[16:27] #knownspace> Lensman: The thing where men seem to be, in general, attracted to people who look like their mother may sound Oedipal, but I guess there are good evolutionary reasons for that.
[16:27] #knownspace> SeanS: dmac44, i dont remember much about it other than what i said
[16:27] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: egads. I tend to be attracted to women who look nothing like my mother.
[16:27] #knownspace> Jim: look like; not are
[16:28] #knownspace> EML: It always fascinated me that even one kryptonite meteor followed the same trajectory as superbaby's ship. Space is big. Comic-book logic, of course.
[16:28] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: My husband has dark hair like my father, but there the resemblance ends.
[16:28] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Comic Book logic = Theoritical Physics
[16:28] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Maybe the earth is some sort of "kryptonite magnet".
[16:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Ed: I understand that in one period of the Superman lore, that was retconned with a natural space warp between Krypton and Earth. (Or rather, Krypton's former location.)
[16:29] #knownspace> SeanS: eml, i read something once that said something like since this amount of kryptonite fell to earth, krypton had to be the size of a galaxy. or something.
[16:29] #knownspace> EML: comic-book physics is indistinguishable from Dan Brown physics, except w.r.t. cover price.
[16:29] #knownspace> dmac44: EML: agreed, small changes to initial conditions would lead to large trajectory deltas. Chaotic stuff.
[16:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Sean: Sounds like a quote from "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex".
[16:30] #knownspace> SeanS: may of been
[16:30] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: Across the Sea of Suns by Gregory Bedford
[16:30] #knownspace> SeanS: thanks dmac
[16:30] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Humm, nice analogy eml.
[16:30] #knownspace> Jim: dmac44: that is an interesting series of books
[16:31] #knownspace> dmac44: I liked them, wish he'd write more in the series. He's working with Larry on a book now.
[16:32] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Working on what book?
[16:32] #knownspace> Jim: tell us
[16:32] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: With Gregory Benford?
[16:32] #knownspace> Lensman: "It has been estimated, form the startling tonnage of kryptonite fallen to Earth since the explosion of Krypton, that the planet must have outweighed our entire solar system. Doubtless the "planet" Krypton was a cooling black dwarf star, one of a binary pair, the other member being a red giant."
[16:32] #knownspace> SeanS: now find me one that on the back cover says 'the universe gone mad' and talks about the good ship hazzard, captain redbeard and blorg. has a ship leaving a hexagonal shaped hatch on the front cover.
[16:32] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I remember then talking about something.... a mega structure....
[16:33] #knownspace> Larry: "The Bowl of Heaven" involves a big structure and its weird history. Bigger than Ringworld, as Greg is fond of pointing out.
[16:33] #knownspace> EML: THen perhaps the soup plate of heaven
[16:33] #knownspace> dmac44: Last month Larry said he was working on a Wok World book. Bowl of Heaven or something like that?
[16:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Right, a Dyson sphere/shell rather than just a strip of one, like the Ringworld. Or I guess, if it's a "bowl", just a Dyson hemi-sphere.
[16:34] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I think that is it, Wok World. Sounds very tongue in cheek.
[16:34] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: I only remember books I've read, mind reader I'm not. : )
[16:34] #knownspace> Lensman: James White did a Dysone sphere novel, /Federation/. Pretty forgettable, tho.
[16:35] #knownspace> SeanS: tis ok... havent seen a copy since i loaned mine out 27 years ago
[16:35] #knownspace> Larry: I'm going to break for lunch. Fare ye well, all.
[16:35] #knownspace> NickE: Wok world indeed. Bowl of Heaven is what I calld it
[16:35] #knownspace> Jim: seeya Larry
[16:35] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: k Larry
[16:35] #knownspace> NickE: TTFN Larry
[16:36] #knownspace> Lensman: It's a wok bowl shape, but the primitive natives will worship soup-plate icons. : )
[16:36] #knownspace> dmac44: Bye Larry
[16:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Bye Larry.... oops, too late.
[16:37] #knownspace> NickE: Cool vid Carol BTW
[16:37] #knownspace> dmac44: Is is a resturaunt mega-structure?
[16:37] #knownspace> NickE: What the one at the end of teh universe? I'd assume so : -)
[16:37] #knownspace> EML: You want me to supersize that world, mister? And fries with that?
[16:37] #knownspace> NickE: ha
[16:37] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: a restaraunt can be a mega-structure, yes. But not necessarily
[16:37] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: TY, Nick
[16:38] #knownspace> dmac44: The one at the end of the universe is probably a franchise.
[16:38] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: LOL, I'm sure there are lot so restaurants in Wok World.
[16:38] #knownspace> SeanS: i wouldnt want a restaurant superstructure... take months of travel to get to the salad bar
[16:38] #knownspace> NickE: hehe
[16:38] #knownspace> dmac44: Name of InnOut. : )
[16:39] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Nick, lately, when demonstrating, we are all on the flat drum stands rather than the verticle drum stands, so we don't do any more of the drumming upside down.
[16:39] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Sean, think of the exercise you would get while eating.
[16:39] #knownspace> SeanS: that would be a bit too much exorcise
[16:39] #knownspace> NickE: heh, yeah that made my back ache just watching it!
[16:40] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: We do three drums with the verticle drums, drumming on three all at once, while stanidng in the center of them.
[16:40] #knownspace> NickE: cool
[16:40] #knownspace> EML: Wok World. Is the main charceter Fozzie Bear? (Wocka Wocka Wocka)
[16:40] #knownspace> SeanS: LOL
[16:41] #knownspace> NickE: <groan>
[16:41] #knownspace> EML: Hmm. My typing skills are more absent than usual today.
[16:41] #knownspace> SeanS: i am just getting mine back
[16:41] #knownspace> NickE: Larry and Greg Benford were playing with the idea some years back as I recall
[16:42] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: EML, haven't noticed a problem. But if we won't give you a break, who will????
[16:42] #knownspace> EML: Carol: is that a (song and a) dance?
[16:43] #knownspace> Lensman: Okay, Niven fans, I have a dilemma that I am soliciting advice about. It has become apparent that the parameters given for the Ringworld don't match each other, may be off by as much as 4% when compared to each other. I'm trying to figure out how to handle this in my Known Space Concordance, where as far as possible I try to present a coherent view of the KS universe, not a multi-verse view....
[16:43] #knownspace> Lensman: ...In this case, it seems impossible to be both precise and stick strictly to canon. So, should I: (1) List only the parameters in the canon, and ignore the discrepancies; (2) Use the much more detailed parameters from the Role-Playing Game, altho those turn out to be only slightly more consistent; (3) Work out what parameters would be consistent with each other, and ignore the canonical...
[16:43] #knownspace> Lensman: ...numbers; or (4) acknowledge that the canonical figures must be only *estimates*, and list both the canonical figures and a... oh, "composite estimate", sort of like a police artist sketch, intended to suggest something *close to* reality but not actually the real thing?
[16:43] #knownspace> NickE: I was always quite fond of Dimple World as a take of Dyson Spheres
[16:43] #knownspace> NickE: but to my knowledge it bnever went much beyond this group
[16:44] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: "canon" is only what Larry was saying at the time. He breaks it himself for a good story.
[16:44] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: (4)
[16:44] #knownspace> Lensman: Was there anyone who was the lynchpin in the "Dimple World" concept? I'd like to see that written up as an article for my Concordance site.
[16:44] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: EML, I'm not so clever as I seem. I'm very straightforward, or silent.
[16:45] #knownspace> EML: I claim no RW expertise. So far our joint efforts have been before Ringworld.
[16:45] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: also, in anticipation of other questions, my answers are : Grey, Mayonnaise, and Genghis Khan.
[16:45] #knownspace> NickE: Ohh blimey, that was so long ago
[16:45] #knownspace> NickE: It came from the list entirely
[16:45] #knownspace> Lensman: I think I should have put in "option (5)": Quit being so obsessive-compulsive, Lensman!
[16:45] #knownspace> NickE: there were some sketches (Dave, did you do some of these?)
[16:46] #knownspace> NickE: This may even have been in teh Bucknell days
[16:46] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: (5)
[16:47] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: me Dave? I do no sketches
[16:47] #knownspace> Lensman: In both Rw and RC, Louis suggests the Ringworld Engineers went off and built an advanced model Ringworld somewhere else! So I think the Dimple World concept may have merit beyond just our own list's speculation.
[16:47] #knownspace> NickE: DAve Grimm possibly (didn;t he just resurface recently?
[16:47] #knownspace> NickE: Been a long time
[16:48] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Ok, (4) works. Btu sometimes Larry has to change things all around based upon a new idea.
[16:48] #knownspace> EML: Louis is rather unfettered in his speculations. And as of Betrayer of Worlds (now in Tor's pipeline), I *am* entitled to kibbitz about Louis.
[16:48] #knownspace> NickE: Oh I agre. I reacll us bein surprisd that nobody had used the idea before as far as we knew
[16:49] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[16:49] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: And anytime that a character is talking, rather than the onnicient narrator, he can be thougth to be lying or mistaken.
[16:49] #knownspace> NickE: lemme just check the other machine
[16:49] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[16:49] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: personally I just think "a wizard did it" and move on
[16:50] #knownspace> Lensman: Yah, Rw and sequels make it very clear we shouldn't put too much stock in Louis' speculations. He does speculate very freely, and often contradicts his own previous speculations. Note particularly "The Three Tales of Teela Brown". Altho to be fair, the first tale was straight from the protector's beak... er, mouth.
[16:50] #knownspace> EML: any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable form technology.
[16:50] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: lol
[16:51] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: any sufficiently advanced lunch is indistinguishable from dinner
[16:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Carol: Yes, one must be very careful to differentiate between first-person dialogue and third-person Omniscient Narrator statements. Especially in the Ringworld books, where there is much "internal dialogue", so the difference between first-person-subjective and third-person-omniscient is blurred.
[16:52] #knownspace> NickE: (might take a while to dig out Dimpl WOrld refs)
[16:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Ed: Didn't Forward write exactly that in his collection /Indistinguishable from Magic/? Or did that originate elsewhere?
[16:53] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Even Larry will say that it is just a story. If it doens't work, change it.
[16:53] #knownspace> EML: Lens: I don't know where it's from -- other than not original to me.
[16:53] #knownspace> Lensman: "Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story." Nor, apparently, continuity.
[16:54] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: consistency is the something something of small minds
[16:54] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: : -) Right.
[16:54] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: A foolish Consistency is the hobgoblin of tiny minds.
[16:54] #knownspace> Lensman: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." Not sure who said that. Emerson?
[16:54] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: thank you
[16:54] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Two of us agree, we must be right.
[16:54] #knownspace> Lensman: <Lensman high-fives FlyingDragon>
[16:55] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Carol: we run this chat like the Space Shuttle computers
[16:55] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Won't leve you hangin!
[16:55] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.: Emerson
[16:56] #knownspace> dmac44: I humbly disagree. Take Ringworld. Tear it in two. Change the second half. Ii changes it. So the consistency argumant depends on whether "story" is a single one or a series.
[16:56] #knownspace> EML: But which consistencies are foolish? Ah, there's the rub, and the fly in the ointment.
[16:56] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: the system has to work in theory. But the fine details are just window dressing
[16:57] #knownspace> Jim: EML, yes some consistences are not foolish
[16:57] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Hving to stick to canon because that is what Larry wrote, even if you can't write the sotry, would be a foolish consistency.
[16:57] #knownspace> dmac44: Yorick nows
[16:57] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: Bo also knowns
[16:58] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: The point there is *foolish* consistency. Consistency is important, yes, to make a story believable. But it's foolish to insist on that to the exclusion of ignoring an opportunity to make the story interesting. For example, note how Horace Bury, the villain of /Mote in God's Eye/, was "rehabilitated" in /The Gripping Hand/. Was that retcon an inconsistency? You betcha. But it made for...
[16:58] #knownspace> Lensman: ...a great story!
[16:58] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: ok folks I have to take my mother to the grocery store.
[16:58] #knownspace> AgincourtDB: I will talk to you all later : -)
[16:59] #knownspace> SeanS: later david
[16:59] #knownspace> EML: Inconsistency is (IMO) a last resort. First comes the attempt to be clever. I had a bit of a struggle convincing Larry that Sigmund wasn't necessarily dead at the end of Crashlander.
[16:59] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: ?me is listening
[16:59] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Clever is good.
[17:00] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: Again, I humbly disagree. As long as the change is reasonable, such as Bury's change, it's not an inconsistency.
[17:01] #knownspace> EML: A person being changed by his experiences is not an inconsistency, it's the crux of life (and most fiction).
[17:01] #knownspace> SeanS: must wander into the kitchen to work on kabobs so julie can eat.
[17:01] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: I seem to remember reading that Tree of Life root was the perfect food for a protector but that continual ingestion of the virus was not necessary.
[17:02] #knownspace> Lensman: "Sherlock Holmes may not have been killed by his fall at Reichenbach (sp?) Falls, but he was never the same afterward." I feel the same about Siggy. Rescued from death, yes; but our dapper and slightly comic agent for the Bureau of Alien Affairs has been turned into an at least occasionally outright crazy paranoiac!
[17:02] #knownspace> dmac44: If a writer can make a story, which is obviously part of a series, consistent they should. It makes the story richer and more believable.
[17:02] #knownspace> EML: Now a person coming back from the dead without explanation -- that is a bit different. What what's-her-name in MISERY called a cheat (just before she chopped off the author's foot).
[17:03] #knownspace> dmac44: Kathy Bates?
[17:03] #knownspace> EML: But on behalf of authors everywhere: it's hard to remember every detail of past stories. Especially as the list gets longer and longer ...
[17:04] #knownspace> EML: Doug: the character played by Kathy Bates in the movie, yes.
[17:04] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: YOu don't HAVE to make a person come back from the dead, in a situation like Misery. YOu can alwasy write a story that took place before the death of a character.
[17:04] #knownspace> dmac44: EML: That's what fans are for : )
[17:04] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Yes, alwasy run story ideas past the biggest fans first.
[17:05] #knownspace> Lensman: Merlin: That seems to be an inconsistency, yes. I think /Protector/ says that they need to actually keep getting new supplies of the virus ingested by eating TOL. But in RC, Proserpina says her TOL was neutered, virus-free, yet she was able to survive eating it for hundreds of thousands of years. Of course, she may have been lying.
[17:06] #knownspace> Lensman: The scenario in "Misery" was an author imprisoned by a fanatic fan who demanded the author write a new story to her specifications. So in that instance, the author was not allowed to write a backstory story.
[17:06] #knownspace> dmac44: FD: I wasn't thinking of story ideas, those are a writer's bread and butter. I was thinking of details.
[17:06] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: The author didn't try to explain that he could still write storys about a character that was dead.
[17:06] #knownspace> EML: The bigger inconsistency is how long a protector can live. "Spock" spent most of his life getting to Sol system -- and he was like a thousand (adjusted for relativity). So how did Prosperina live so long?
[17:06] #knownspace> NickE: Dimple World: www.cyphertext.net/~gfish/gfish/moloch/dimple.html has some renders
[17:07] #knownspace> NickE: I thisnk Matt Dockrey had Grendelfish as his handle at some point?
[17:07] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Think you are right
[17:07] #knownspace> NickE: There were some other sketches as well which I think now must have been by Dave Grimm
[17:08] #knownspace> NickE: but can't find
[17:08] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: I think we just disagree over the definition of "inconsistency". If you don't agree that the way Bury was treated as a black-hearted villain in /Mote/ is inconsistent with the way he was a good-hearted protagonist in /Gripping Hand/, then clearly we don't agree on what is and is not "consistent".
[17:09] #knownspace> EML: In MISERY, the author simply had his character be alive, without explanation, after her death. When suitably motivated by his crazed fan/captor, he came up with a reason why she had been buried alive and might yet have survived.
[17:09] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: I agree with EML that life experiences can change a person and that can be okay
[17:10] #knownspace> EML: And fine-tunimg my own comment -- people can change, but not every change is believable. The author has to make the change believable.
[17:10] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Need coffee BRB
[17:10] #knownspace> dmac44: EML: agreed
[17:11] #knownspace> EML: Easily done, of course, if years pass between sightings of the character, and the change hapopens off-stage. Only that's the least interesting way to handle change.
[17:11] #knownspace> Lensman: Ed: Ohhh, that hasn't come up in the discussions between Jon and myself. In /Protector/ it's stated that the lifespan of a protector is about 1500 years, and T-pok spent about 1200 years subjective time traveling to Sol System. Obviously Proserpina isn't telling everything she knows! Is she really a survivor from the era of building the Ringworld? Maybe she's much younger, and is relating a...
[17:11] #knownspace> Lensman: ...story handed down from generation to generation of protectors.
[17:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Contrariwise, maybe there is some sort of magical machine inside the Penultimate's Citadel that rejuvenates protectors.
[17:12] #knownspace> EML: And methinks she's crazy as a loon.
[17:13] #knownspace> EML: Lens: I hope not. Immortal supergeniuoses are dull characters.
[17:13] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: As to when the Puppet.... Citizens discover and plant their superconductor eating virus?....
[17:13] sigmund has joined #knownspace
[17:13] #knownspace> EML: Sigmund! Gotta love the handle.
[17:14] #knownspace> sigmund: Love the character y'all gave life to! More of the same, please!
[17:14] #knownspace> EML: Thamks. Sigmund.
[17:14] #knownspace> sigmund: Five books in this series is just way too few!
[17:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Nick: OOOH thank you for the Dimple World link! Who put up that site, do you know?
[17:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Welcome Sigmund!
[17:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Ed: I confess I don't understand your statement that Prosperpina is "crazy as a loon". What am I overlooking?
[17:17] #knownspace> EML: Lens: it's been a while since I read RC, so I can't provide specifics. That's just the impression I'm left with.
[17:17] #knownspace> sigmund: Proserpina certainly had a different outlook than any protector from Pakhome that we've seen so far.
[17:17] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Old lonely and starved for attention?
[17:18] #knownspace> EML: MM: certainly she is those things. Which can cause erratic behavior.
[17:18] #knownspace> sigmund: Proserpina is more in the mold of protectors like Brennan and Tunesmith.
[17:18] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Aye.
[17:18] #knownspace> sigmund: The protectors from Pakhome tend to be more like progeny-protecting machines. No personality. Singleminded. Those developed from sentient species--and Proserpina--have a broader view of things.
[17:19] #knownspace> sigmund: They want to protect offspring, but that's not the *only* thing they think about. IMHO.
[17:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Proserpina's own story explains why she is different; she is from a line of Pak *bred* to make protectors more cooperative with each other, and more likely to see/feel their duty is toward the species as a whole, and less towards their own clan/family. Nonetheless, by Proserpina's own account, she and 10-11 other protectors *did* try to pull off a coup. So while she is *somewhat* more...
[17:20] #knownspace> Lensman: ...cooperative than the average Pak protector, she's not that cooperative! Sorta like the Ringworld era Kzinti were somewhat less aggressive toward Humans... but not *that* much less!
[17:20] #knownspace> sigmund: So by Pak standards, Proserpina might seem crazy. My 2cents.
[17:21] #knownspace> EML: Interesting, Sigmund. Yes, Brennan is a more interesting protector than "Spock". Part of the fun of Destroyer (he says with total objectivity : -) ) is showing a change come over "Mr. T."
[17:21] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Which creates the question of the difference between Phss & Thss as to the initial response to humans. Was Phssthpok certifiable or did the Librarian in him give him an insight Thss lacked?
[17:22] #knownspace> Lensman: Sigmund: Hmmm, you have an excellent point. Proserpina acts like she's from a fully sapient line of breeders, like Brennan, Truesdale and Teela-monster. Not like she's from an unevolved Pak breeder. Perhaps evidence she's lying, and she's from a more recent origin?
[17:22] #knownspace> Lensman: Merlin: P-pok had lost his family. T-fok had not. Entirely different motive.
[17:23] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Aye, thus the Librarian reff.
[17:23] #knownspace> sigmund: Lens: Fascinaing idea! In which case who built ringworld would still be an open question!
[17:23] #knownspace> EML: Gosh, y'all like your protectors!
[17:24] #knownspace> NickE: oh yeah
[17:24] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Indeed we do.
[17:24] #knownspace> EML: I'm toddling off for dinner in a little while. Any feedback about the Gw'oth before I go?
[17:24] #knownspace> sigmund: In a way I hate to say it, but the eccentric protectors (those made from sentient species plus Hanuman and Proserpina)--as enjoyable as they are to read about--aren't as "pure" as Thsspok. He's probably the most "normal" protector we've read about (given that Ppok was breederless librarian)
[17:24] #knownspace> Lensman: siggy: I think it's obvious that Larry *meant* to leave "Who built the Ringworld?" as an open question.
[17:25] #knownspace> sigmund: EML: I want to know what happens with the Gw'oth and the concordance! Please address in forthcoming novels! (Though I'm sure you already are : -)
[17:25] #knownspace> EML: Siggy: a good assumption.
[17:26] #knownspace> sigmund: Also, I'm hoping we see more about the internal divisions of Gw'oth society and how that affects external relations.
[17:26] #knownspace> Lensman: I love protectors! But only when they're written well. Unfortunately, in some of the MKW stories they come off like Motie warriors... *less* good with tactics than the average U.S. marine. Not believable. It's *hard* to write a character who is smarter than the author. Larry does it well. Other writers... do not.
[17:26] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: How similar they are to Jotok strikes me.
[17:27] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Except for the water breathing aspect that is.
[17:27] #knownspace> dmac44: EML: I like the Gw'oth. You and Larry have done a good job with them in the first 3 novels.
[17:27] #knownspace> EML: The physical resemblance to Jotok is pure coincidence (I don't read many MKZ stories). But they're quite different species. Adult Jotoki (sp?) are air breathers, while Gw'oth never are.
[17:27] #knownspace> sigmund: E.g., suppose the Gw'oth from destroyer go back with all their neat new tech and pressure other city states, leading the others to try to make some kidn of deal with the offworlders to prevent their own repression.
[17:28] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Wern't they in Fly-By-Night as well?
[17:28] #knownspace> EML: Sigmund: you'll see some Gw'oth politics in Betrayer of Worlds. I won't say any more than that.
[17:29] #knownspace> sigmund: A Jokotok was in Fly-By-Night, yes.
[17:29] #knownspace> sigmund: EML: Kewl!
[17:29] #knownspace> sigmund: Ooo! I just rmembered a question I had!
[17:29] #knownspace> Lensman: There was a Jotok in "Fly-By-Night", yes. So they are canonical. That doesn't mean everything every MKW story *says* about Jotoki are canonical, tho.
[17:30] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Just saying another multi-mind starfish like creature seemed a bit too much of a coincidence.
[17:30] #knownspace> EML: Today's theme sort of became inconsistencies. Any inconsistencies among the Gw'oth that need adressing in another book?
[17:30] #knownspace> sigmund: I *really* like the narrator on the audiobooks of the Worlds series. He's wonderful. But I wonder how much (if any) guidance he gets regarding pronunciation, etc.
[17:30] #knownspace> sigmund: Sometimes he pronounces "twing" as "twinge."
[17:30] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Actuallly, it seems to me that ONE type of creature would make it MORE likely for there to be one similar.
[17:30] #knownspace> Lensman: Merlin: You're far from the only one who thought it was not just a coincidence. Ed had to point out to me the difference between air-breathing and water-breathing.
[17:31] #knownspace> sigmund: He also does a really great job differentiating characters by accent. I assume that's his own doing, but he does it great. Love having Bey have a scandanavian accent, and belters as australians.
[17:31] #knownspace> dmac44: FD: yes, given humans, kziniti, Kdatlyno are bipedial
[17:31] #knownspace> sigmund: I was puzzled by the fact that in Fleet, the number of gw;oth merging seems quite variable but in Destroyer it seems that the loss of even a single member is a big problem.
[17:32] #knownspace> EML: Yes, Tom Weiner does an excellent job of narration of the Worlds books.
[17:32] #knownspace> sigmund: In Fleet Kirsten finds all different numberings, based on what kind of calculation they're doing, or maybe I misunderstood that.
[17:32] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: TY, Dmac. Also, five fingers seems a VERY common thing to have on hands, even if you are not bi-pedal.
[17:33] #knownspace> Lensman: But Kzinti have only four fingers... or three plus a thumb.
[17:33] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: That's what I thought as well Lens.
[17:34] #knownspace> Lensman: And I think Thrintun have four, also. Or maybe just three, I forget.
[17:34] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Larry forgot to mention the Du-claw! LOL
[17:34] #knownspace> EML: Sigmund: yes, different melds exists. That's not to say a particular Gw'o takes part in more than one meld. But only in the 16-tuples does a full overmind emerge. Lesser melds are less sentient.
[17:34] #knownspace> Lensman: <spelling Nazi mode"dew claw"
[17:34] #knownspace> EML: You'll meet an 8-tuple in Betrayer.
[17:34] #knownspace> sigmund: Kewl!
[17:35] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Is there a target date for publication?
[17:35] #knownspace> EML: see, Thrintun are cartoon characters that's why they have only four fingers : -)
[17:36] #knownspace> Lensman: ...with Mickey Mouse hands!
[17:36] #knownspace> sigmund: Cartoons in our world also seem to be able to control minds. Look at they way they keep children mesmerized!
[17:36] #knownspace> EML: MM: tentatively fall 2010.
[17:36] Fred has joined #knownspace
[17:36] #knownspace> Jim: fred!
[17:36] #knownspace> NickE: hey Fred
[17:36] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: HEllo, Fred.
[17:36] #knownspace> Fred: Jim!
[17:36] #knownspace> Fred: hey carol
[17:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Ohhh I wish I could post pictures here!
[17:37] #knownspace> EML: John Boy!
[17:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Imagine this Kzin snarling "I am *not* a cartoon character!"
[17:37] #knownspace> Lensman: http: //www.freewebs.com/knownspace/SlaverWeaponMed.jpg
[17:38] #knownspace> sigmund: LOL!
[17:38] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: Or that is not me on that box of corn flakes.
[17:38] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: LOL!!!
[17:38] #knownspace> EML: OKay, all. That's it for me today.
[17:38] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL! Kellog's Corn flakes...
[17:39] #knownspace> dmac44: bye Ed
[17:39] #knownspace> Jim: bye
[17:39] #knownspace> NickE: be
[17:39] #knownspace> sigmund: C'ya Ed!
[17:39] #knownspace> NickE: bye
[17:39] #knownspace> Lensman: Goodbye Ed
[17:39] #knownspace> Fred: and now we can tell painful dentist stories
[17:40] #knownspace> sigmund: Is there any other kind?
[17:40] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: How fun.
[17:40] #knownspace> Fred: Ed is dentist shy Carol
[17:40] #knownspace> Fred: the mere mention sends him running
[17:40] #knownspace> Fred: so we keep our mouths shut
[17:40] #knownspace> Fred: so to speak
[17:40] #knownspace> sigmund: hmmm. denists. mouths shut. . . . I wonder.
[17:41] #knownspace> Fred: so, did *anybody* look at my Ringworld movie, to see if the star backgrounds were visible to them?
[17:41] #knownspace> NickE: yes
[17:41] #knownspace> sigmund: Fred: Hadn't heard of it. Where can it be found?
[17:42] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Get too dentist shy, and yoru teeth will REALLY hurt.
[17:42] #knownspace> Fred: hang on, I'll retrieve the url
[17:42] #knownspace> NickE: Though it was terrestrial skies - I coudl see Orion : -)
[17:42] #knownspace> NickE: kewl
[17:42] #knownspace> Jim: the cure for tooth pain: oral tobacco
[17:43] #knownspace> NickE: eeww
[17:43] #knownspace> sigmund: Hadn't heard that one!
[17:43] #knownspace> Fred: http: //gallery.me.com/anim8rfsk/100038
[17:43] #knownspace> NickE: oil of cloves
[17:43] #knownspace> Fred: albedo did some ringworld animations and people were saying they couldn't see his cloud backgrounds
[17:44] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Those only work for the short term.
[17:44] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Thought having puppeteer mouth nodes might help, but on second thought it would be more painful methinks.
[17:44] #knownspace> Fred: so we wanted to know if anybody had a problem with my star background
[17:44] #knownspace> NickE: they were still neat
[17:44] #knownspace> Lensman: Fred: I saw a few stars in your animation, yes.
[17:45] #knownspace> Lensman: Disappointing that Albedo doesn't seem to be interested in re-rendering his animation for those whose monitors don't display it properly.
[17:45] #knownspace> Fred: well, how would he do that?
[17:45] #knownspace> Fred: if he adjusts for you, it would be wrong for others
[17:45] #knownspace> sigmund: hello?
[17:46] #knownspace> sigmund: hello?
[17:46] #knownspace> Fred: hey siggy
[17:46] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: hello?
[17:46] #knownspace> Fred: goodbye
[17:46] sigmund has joined #knownspace
[17:46] #knownspace> Fred: hello
[17:46] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Net issues his end I suppose.
[17:46] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: There you go!
[17:46] #knownspace> sigmund: Had to re-login, but seems to be working now.
[17:46] #knownspace> Lensman: Fred: But I've never heard of anyone making similar complaints about other animations. I therefore conclude that the difference is with his render settings, not with my monitor.
[17:46] #knownspace> Fred: annoyingly Snow Leopard OSX resets Mac gamma to match PC gamma
[17:47] #knownspace> Fred: so you have to go in and fix it
[17:47] #knownspace> Fred: It's possible that's what we're up against
[17:47] #knownspace> Lensman: Also, with Albedo's *previous* animations, I did not find them overly dim, as this new one is.
[17:47] #knownspace> Fred: hmmm
[17:47] #knownspace> sigmund: Fred: Were you able to retrieve the URL? I seem to have missed it.
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: http: //gallery.me.com/anim8rfsk/100038
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: were his earlier animations flash?
[17:48] #knownspace> sigmund: test
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: maybe he hit something compressing them
[17:48] sigmund has joined #knownspace
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: lol, poor siggy
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: http: //gallery.me.com/anim8rfsk/100038
[17:48] #knownspace> sigmund: test
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: I think every time I post an url I knock siggy off the board
[17:48] sigmund has joined #knownspace
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: http: //gallery.me.com/anim8rfsk/100038
[17:48] #knownspace> Lensman: I really don't know if they were Flash. I think they used the same thing for a player, so I'm guessing "yes".
[17:49] #knownspace> sigmund: it appears that when Fred pastes the URL, a blank line appears and I have to re-login.
[17:49] #knownspace> Fred: hee hee
[17:49] sigmund has joined #knownspace
[17:49] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Weird, siggy
[17:49] #knownspace> sigmund: it appeares that when fred passtes the url, it creates a blank line and i have to re-login.
[17:49] #knownspace> Fred: okay
[17:49] #knownspace> Lensman: Siggy, what are you using to access this chat?
[17:49] #knownspace> Fred: here is the url
[17:49] #knownspace> sigmund: irc
[17:49] #knownspace> sigmund: irc.larryniven.org
[17:49] #knownspace> Fred: without http: //
[17:50] #knownspace> Fred: gallery.me.com/anim8rfsk/100038
[17:50] #knownspace> Fred: did that show?
[17:50] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Use ChatZilla.
[17:50] #knownspace> Lensman: Odd, I don't recall that problem with anyone else. Siggy, what operating system and what browser?
[17:50] #knownspace> sigmund: personally, I think it's a puppeteer conspiracy. Possibly with Jinxian support.
[17:50] sigmund has joined #knownspace
[17:50] #knownspace> Jim: gee
[17:50] #knownspace> Lensman: Siggy, what browser and what operating system?
[17:51] #knownspace> sigmund: Windows 7 and Google Chrome.
[17:51] #knownspace> Fred: h t t p colon slash slash gallery DOT me DOT com SLASH anim8rfsk SLASH 100038
[17:51] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Using Firefox with the ChatZilla add on works fine here.
[17:51] #knownspace> Fred: If that one kills him, I give up
[17:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, if you are willing to use FireFox, we suggest you install ChatZilla and use that to access the chat. Seems to be fewer problems that way. Carol uses Trilian... but the setup there is more complex.
[17:52] #knownspace> Fred: I use firefox and just hit the java chat
[17:52] #knownspace> sigmund: That one I got! Thanks!
[17:52] #knownspace> Fred: : )
[17:52] #knownspace> dmac44: Gotta run,see you all next month
[17:52] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Bah, java chat is to limited.
[17:52] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Set up you only have to do ONCE!!!! Actually, Yahoo doesn't seem to work with Trillian anymore.
[17:52] #knownspace> Jim: bye
[17:52] #knownspace> Fred: limited in what way
[17:52] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: CU, dmac
[17:52] #knownspace> Fred: ?
[17:54] #knownspace> Lensman: Odd, my linking to the Kzin screen shot from "The Slaver Weapon" doesn't seem to have knocked Siggy off. Guess Chrome just doesn't like you, Fred! : )
[17:54] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Perhaps it was a connectivity issue, but I remember switching for a reason. May have been an issue with the DNS names a while ago.
[17:54] #knownspace> sigmund: Lens: Yes. I was even able to click your link and it opened in a new window just fine. Don't know what the issue is.
[17:54] #knownspace> Fred: it's probably me dot com. me dot com is evil.
[17:55] #knownspace> Fred: can't even type it out, it's like saying satan's name
[17:55] #knownspace> sigmund: Fred: Just checked out your aimation and can see starfield fine. My monitor is somewhat brighter than my TV, though, so it might vary based on the person's monitor.
[17:55] #knownspace> Lensman: There are many problems with Java chat being slow, locking up, and dropping the connection. And it's not just this chat room, I've had exactly the same experience-- and complaints from others-- with another chat group that uses a Java based chat, too.
[17:55] #knownspace> Fred: k siggy thanks
[17:56] #knownspace> Fred: lens, as much trouble as I have with firefox and cox cable, java chat is the one thing that doesn't eat my face
[17:57] #knownspace> sigmund: I should go, guys! See yall!
[17:57] #knownspace> sigmund: Thanks for the chat!
[17:57] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: bye, siggy
[17:57] #knownspace> Lensman: Fred: Obviously different people are gonna have different experiences based on their individual computer, browser, and ISP setup. Thank Finagle Larry finally seems to be able to access this chat just fine, after many months of frustration. I guess he had to re-install his Java driver.
[17:58] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: This is the first chat I have made in about a year.
[17:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Bye Siggy.
[17:58] #knownspace> Jim: bye
[17:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Nice of you to join us, Carol. You used to be one of the more regular regulars!
[17:58] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Then I started doing Martial arts.
[17:59] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: So my satrudays are filled with learning how to hurt people!!!!!
[17:59] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Then, I forget, or am very tired.....
[18:00] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Amazing number of poeple here, considering how many are actually TYPING!
[18:00] #knownspace> Fred: Larry wouldn't have to mess with Java if Jerry didn't make him use a PC
[18:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Carol, some on the list are 'bots.
[18:00] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: I have a PC, and I don't have to use JAVA
[18:01] #knownspace> Jim: Why does JerryP make Larry use a PC.
[18:01] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes, what Flying D said.
[18:01] #knownspace> Fred: because Jerry uses a PC
[18:01] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Larry is afraid to DL Trillian, even though I was willing to hold his hand while he did it.
[18:01] #knownspace> Jim: I use a PC and have no trouble with Mibbit.
[18:01] #knownspace> Fred: heh, I just got a private reply from one of our regulars on the list, he thinks the black helicopters are going to come after me for my comment about the IRS this morning
[18:02] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: I sent him an e-mail months ago on how to use ChatZilla within Firefox. Is that what he is doing now?
[18:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Based on several e-mails between myself and Larry regarding his difficulties accessing chat, I get the impression Larry is not very computer-savvy.
[18:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Merlin: No.
[18:02] #knownspace> Lensman: I tried to convince Larry to use Chatzilla too. No dice.
[18:02] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Steve made him take a computer class once, but I don't know if he finished it.
[18:03] #knownspace> Jim: Lots of smart people don't care to know about computers.
[18:03] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Larry was once taking up a guy because he bought a copmuter from him, and he came over to his house to set it up for him.
[18:03] #knownspace> Lensman: I rather doubt Larry is a technophobe. I suspect it's more like he has other interests. *Many* other interests.
[18:03] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: A lot of people his age have a hard time learning computers.
[18:04] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Indeed, teaching my parents is a continuing job.
[18:04] #knownspace> Fred: oddly I know old people that can't handle a Mac, and find windows easier
[18:04] #knownspace> Fred: I don't get that at all
[18:04] #knownspace> Fred: but it spares me tech support calls
[18:04] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, my mother... I get very frustrated telling her over and over how to do the most basic things in Windows, but she never seems to remember.
[18:04] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: I get it fine, to me a Mac is counterintuitive. I started work in Unix as well.
[18:05] #knownspace> Fred: Mom can't remember how to work the DVR either
[18:05] #knownspace> Fred: the DVR is programmed by evil metric people though
[18:07] #knownspace> Fred: http: //marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/05/oscars-new-math-how-best-picture-will-be-picked/?hpt=C1
[18:07] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Talk about BASIC!! My mother still can't QUITE understand what a passowrd is for!!!!
[18:08] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: She will say but my password is "X" and you will ahve to ask her is that your password for THIS Program or for this OTHER program?????
[18:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Carol: Quite often when I tell Mom "click on..." she responds "Is that a right-click or a left-click?" No matter how many times I say "It's a left-click unless I *say* it's a right-click", she can't seem to get it.
[18:09] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: My mom doesn't know how to click on a dialogue box.
[18:09] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Well the movie/TV culture would have us believe a left double click is the answer to everything ;)
[18:09] #knownspace> Lensman: Carol: Okay, you win. : )
[18:09] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: WE'll tell her to enter something, and she says she can't.
[18:10] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Leaving to go shop at Target.
[18:10] #knownspace> Jim: bye
[18:11] #knownspace> NickE: night Carol
[18:11] #knownspace> FlyingDragon: Night
[18:11] #knownspace> Jim: What bothers me is that I work with people who have next to no computer skills yet make much more money than I do.
[18:12] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Don't get me started Jim.
[18:12] #knownspace> FlyingAway: You don't have to be SMART to make lots of money.
[18:12] #knownspace> Fred: in fact, it might help if you're not
[18:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Yeah, I don't see that computer skills and being rich are connected to a significant degree.
[18:13] #knownspace> Akiraa: "Is that a right-click or a left-click?" -- sounds like a Get-a-Mac commercial : )
[18:14] #knownspace> Fred: hee hee Akiraa
[18:14] #knownspace> Jim: But these people claim to be engineers and technicians.
[18:15] #knownspace> Akiraa: I've seen surgeons and engineers not knowing what an OS is
[18:15] #knownspace> Lensman: We've had engineers for many more generations than we've had desktop computers, Jim.
[18:15] #knownspace> Akiraa: or the difference between "the internet" and their IE web browser
[18:15] #knownspace> Akiraa: try to explain wifi to most people -- a pointless attempt
[18:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Surgeons, too.
[18:16] #knownspace> Jim: Lensman, I am in my mid-forties; these people are not much older than I am.
[18:18] #knownspace> Jim: Some engineering sub-fields used computers back in the mainframe days; these people tend to be able to use desktop computers.
[18:18] #knownspace> Lensman: There was a lot of resistance when desktop computers were first introduced into the office environment. A lot of executives said "Why should I have to learn to use a computer? That's what I have a secretary for." I'm not sure that's entirely an unreasonable attitude. Contrariwise, having done drafting by hand, I think anyone who needs to do engineering drawings, or complex calculations,...
[18:18] #knownspace> Lensman: ...should jump at the chance to use a CAD or spreadsheet program.
[18:22] #knownspace> NickE: gotta go
[18:22] #knownspace> NickE: night
[18:22] #knownspace> Jim: bye nick
[18:22] #knownspace> Jim: Fred, at least in your business there are no well paid fools : -)
[18:24] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Jim, there are highly paid fools in every field I have ever seen.
[18:29] #knownspace> Jim: I gotta to go get some supper, but I will stay connected.
[18:33] #knownspace> Fred: he was being sarcastic merlin
[18:33] #knownspace> Fred: my business is knows for it's highly paid fools
[18:34] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Humm, lawyer eh? : P
[18:35] #knownspace> Fred: show biz
[18:35] #knownspace> Akiraa: the crazier they are, the more money they make
[18:36] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Ah, would have been my 3rd guess beyond publishing.
[18:37] #knownspace> Fred: http: //media1.break.com/dnet/media/2010/3/5/57%20WTF%20Japan!_thumb.jpg
[18:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Erm... I think I could have lived my entire life without seeing that, and not feel I missed anything.
[18:39] #knownspace> Fred: hee hee
[18:39] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Actually the less talented and more outrageous their public behaviour is the more money they get. Or is it the gits get more?
[18:39] #knownspace> Lensman: Merlin: Right. And the actors are even worse.
[18:41] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Point being Actors rarely get paid anything, celeberties are not actors. Proven time and again in the popluar media.
[18:43] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, Fred should say this not me, but since he
[18:43] #knownspace> Lensman: he's not... Fred does special effects, so generally doesn't deal with actors. He deals with producers, directors, art directors, etc.
[18:45] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Ah, the most crazy ones in the biz then. Keep your dosages balanced then Fred.
[18:57] #knownspace> Fred: hah! C4D has a shader called "earth" that makes an endless array of blue ocean and green land, with arid peaks and light blue shallows
[19:00] #knownspace> Fred: with a setting for land vs water. Isn't the ring about 40% water?
[19:00] #knownspace> Lensman: 50%, Fred.
[19:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, that's too precise. I think it says "about half". The RPG claims 53% IIRC... I dunno why.
[19:05] #knownspace> Lensman: Here's the quote: "...the Ringworld was approximately half water..." (/Ringworld/ ch. 9, p. 131)
[19:06] #knownspace> Fred: k
[19:06] #knownspace> Fred: thanks
[19:07] #knownspace> Jim: What is C4D's real name?
[19:07] #knownspace> Fred: Cinema 4D
[19:07] #knownspace> Fred: Maxon.net
[19:07] #knownspace> Fred: I wonder if that figure accounts for the great oceans
[19:07] #knownspace> Fred: if, say, the rest of the ring is 40% water
[19:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Keep in mind the Great Oceans are a very tiny fraction of the surface area, so it really doesn't matter.
[19:08] #knownspace> Jim: How many great oceans are there?
[19:08] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: 2
[19:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Two
[19:09] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: They are the counterweights to help balance the spin.
[19:10] #knownspace> Lensman: Approx. 0.24% of the entire surface area, if I have it calculated right.
[19:10] #knownspace> Jim: An enemy could punch through the bottom of one to send Ringworld spinning.
[19:10] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: That is what the repair center is for (in theory at least).
[19:10] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes. The Ringworld isn't very defensible. Hence my theory that it's not intended to be.
[19:11] #knownspace> Jim: Who are the Ringworld Engineers, if not the Pak?
[19:11] #knownspace> Lensman: The one Repair Center we know about. It has been implied that's the only one, but there may be unused backups.
[19:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Fan theories have suggested Tnuctipun or Outsiders for the Ringworld Engineers. I don't find those theories convincing. The Ringworld was clearly made by a species without hyperdrive tech, and the gravity is much, much too high for use by Outsiders.
[19:12] #knownspace> Jim: Are there megastructures that can be made that do not need game-changing advances in material science?
[19:12] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Who made the outsider hyperspace drives (as they don't use them)? These and infinite other questions abound.
[19:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Jim: Sure. The original idea of a "Dyson shell" was a series of solar-power satellites in different orbits. Not a rigid shell.
[19:15] #knownspace> Lensman: As far as we know, the Outsiders developed the hyperdrive. That doesn't mean they *use* it. It also doesn't mean they won't use it in an emergency. Note they *do* stay in communication via hyperwave, per DOW.
[19:15] #knownspace> Lensman: According to the end of /A Gift from Earth/, Outsiders regard hyperspace travel as "vulgar". Again, this doesn't necessarily mean they won't use it in an emergency.
[19:18] #knownspace> Jim: I have heard that a portion of the 1903 film Alice in Wonderland has been restored and is on YouTube.
[19:19] #knownspace> Jim: http: //marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/05/1903-alice-gets-a-new-lease-on-life/
[19:20] #knownspace> Jim: Is SeanS still here; Louisville beat Syracuse 78-68
[19:27] #knownspace> Lensman: For some value of "restored". Not very.
[19:32] #knownspace> Fred: friend of mine is at the new Alice with his GF right now. Afte, they're going home and watching the XXX alice, but gf doesn't know it yet
[19:33] #knownspace> Jim: What is the plot of the XXX Alice?
[19:36] Dan has joined #knownspace
[19:36] #knownspace> Dan: Greetings, Programs!
[19:37] #knownspace> Jim: dan
[19:37] #knownspace> Dan: I just got home and thought I check an see if anyone was still in the chat.
[19:38] #knownspace> Dan: Evidentally I'm not hitting the "D" key hard enough, : )
[19:39] #knownspace> Jim: ?
[19:40] #knownspace> Dan: Two typos in my earlier sentence, and both were because a D was missing.
[19:45] #knownspace> Jim: I think that everyone is away from their computer.
[19:46] #knownspace> Lensman: Plot? What plot? Is there some part of "XXX" rated you don't understand? : )
[19:46] #knownspace> Dan: I'm not surprised.
[19:46] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[19:47] #knownspace> Lensman: I guess "The Devil in Miss Jones" had a plot. Otherwise... not so much.
[19:48] #knownspace> Dan: I didn't think plot was necessary in pornos. : )
[19:49] #knownspace> Lensman: Obviously not, since such a large fraction of video sales & rentals are porn.
[19:50] #knownspace> Jim: There is a plot to XXX films. Just not a very complicated plot.
[19:50] #knownspace> Dan: In fact, I seem to recall reading that the ones with any sort of story were usually the worst sellers.
[19:51] #knownspace> Jim: The XXX Alice film was from what Wikipedia calls the Golden Age of Pornography, when XXX films had plots to prevent them from been labeled obscene.
[19:52] #knownspace> Dan: Ah! I see.
[19:53] #knownspace> Lensman: I freely confess this is not a subject I know a lot about.
[20:15] #knownspace> Jim: gotta go now
[20:46] #knownspace> SeanS: hi dan
[20:46] #knownspace> Dan: Hiya, Sean!
[20:46] #knownspace> SeanS: playing broke arm pool with julie
[20:47] #knownspace> Dan: I just had an interesting e-mail from the fellow who runs the Flash Fiction contests on my e-zine each month.
[20:48] #knownspace> SeanS: ?
[20:49] #knownspace> Dan: He's putting together a Print On Demand paperback of 82 of the stories from the contests. I have one he wants to include.
[20:50] #knownspace> Dan: I'd stand to make a cool 10 off of each copy sold.
[20:51] #knownspace> Lensman: So, will this be your first paid publication, Dan?
[20:52] #knownspace> Dan: It would indeed.
[20:52] #knownspace> Lensman: "Broke arm pool", does that mean you are only allowed to use one arm?
[20:52] #knownspace> Dan: I think it implies he's got a broken arm.
[20:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Dan: Well, welcome to the ranks of professional writers!
[20:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, but what I want to know is: Is Julie restricted to using only one arm?
[20:55] #knownspace> Dan: Well, it's more about having a story in a book than it is about making any reall cash. But still, I'm not likely to make any money off of that story in the near future by selling it to a big pro publisher. : ).
[20:56] #knownspace> Dan: The price to buyers would be roughly $20 for a copy. He's setting it up with LULU as the POD publisher.
[20:58] #knownspace> Dan: 19 writers, 82 stories, each contributer would get 10 per each story they have in the book.
[21:00] #knownspace> Dan: The guy putting the collection together is doing all the work, really.
[21:06] #knownspace> SeanS: no, it means i broke my left humuros back in december and am just starting to use my left arm again in the last couple of weeks
[21:07] #knownspace> SeanS: upper left arm
[21:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Lulu.com is what I've seen recommended on the AbsoluteWrite writers' forum, for self publishing. It's a lot better than traditional "vanity press" because the required investment by the author/editor is very little, assuming he can do his own editing and provide a cover.
[21:07] #knownspace> Lensman: At least, so I'm told. Haven't used Lulu.com myself.
[21:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Sean, I wish you a speedy recovery.
[21:08] #knownspace> SeanS: its been 2 months plus but wishes aare apreciated
[21:08] #knownspace> Dan: Faster recovery that I made, LOL!
[21:09] #knownspace> Dan: that=than
[21:09] #knownspace> SeanS: just started typing 2 handed again so typos are many and i do not apologize
[21:10] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, speedy-*er* recovery. I know that broken arms and legs take awhile. I had a cousin who broke his lower arm, back in the days of plaster casts. By the time they took the cast off, his arm muscle had about withered away. Took a long time for him to recover fully.
[21:10] #knownspace> SeanS: dan, nick edwards is going to dragon con. aare you?
[21:10] #knownspace> SeanS: i havve atrophied a bunch
[21:10] #knownspace> Lensman: It was strange seeing one of his arms about half the diameter of the other.
[21:11] #knownspace> SeanS: i can be talked into going
[21:11] #knownspace> Dan: Can't afford DragonCon yet. Maybe is a couple of years. If the economy recovers some more.
[21:11] #knownspace> Lensman: "Atrophy", thanks that's the word I wanted.
[21:11] #knownspace> SeanS: i look like 2 different people left to right
[21:12] #knownspace> SeanS: will fix it by swimming a ton
[21:12] CCulpepper has joined #knownspace
[21:12] #knownspace> Dan: Hello, CCulpepper.
[21:12] #knownspace> CCulpepper: Hello all
[21:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Sounds like him. He was a jock, so had pretty good arm muscles before they atrophied. He was lifting weights for awhile, I don't remember if that was before or after the accident, or both.
[21:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Hello Chris!
[21:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Hey, you missed a lively chat earlier. Both Larry and Ed were here, it was hard to keep up for awhile!
[21:13] #knownspace> CCulpepper: Yeah, I completly forgot. I could have been on too. I was babysitting and i had good internet...
[21:13] #knownspace> Dan: It figures! Sorry I missed that.
[21:14] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, Lyn sends hugs to you & Julie.
[21:14] #knownspace> SeanS: might just invite nick to your house and meet him there dan
[21:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Larry told us the correct pronunciation of "Phssthpok". The -pok is done by popping your lips.
[21:15] #knownspace> CCulpepper: How do you pronounce it?
[21:15] #knownspace> Lensman: I can't quote, Chatzilla doesn't keep chat that far back.
[21:16] #knownspace> CCulpepper: Ohay. Ill just check the logs later.
[21:16] #knownspace> CCulpepper: okay
[21:19] #knownspace> CCulpepper: Im gonna try to disconnect and reconnect to get a better speed than 9.6 kbps.
[21:20] #knownspace> Dan: K
[21:34] CCulpepper has joined #knownspace
[21:34] #knownspace> CCulpepper: Back. I had to resplice the cable...
[21:35] #knownspace> Dan: I hope that worked for you.
[21:35] #knownspace> CCulpepper: As do I.
[21:36] #knownspace> SeanS: hugs back to lyn
[21:36] #knownspace> Dan: Will do, Sean.
[21:37] #knownspace> SeanS: i called you this morning but your machine picked up
[21:37] #knownspace> Dan: We were still in bed.
[21:37] #knownspace> SeanS: good
[21:37] #knownspace> SeanS: frisbee golf in my future... gotta love the wii
[21:38] #knownspace> Dan: We slept really late, then went off to have a pot-luck diner with some folks from Lyn's church.
[21:39] #knownspace> SeanS: cool
[21:39] #knownspace> Dan: I am totally stuffed wih shrimp, fish, and coleslaw!
[21:40] #knownspace> Dan: And no one bothered me with any "why don't you ever come to services with your wife?" crap, either.
[21:40] #knownspace> SeanS: i hear ya... kabobs here tonight
[21:42] #knownspace> SeanS: if someone bitched about that i would just say i am a preacher
[21:44] #knownspace> SeanS: what about getting nick over to your house?
[21:45] #knownspace> Dan: I made it clear when I irst met them a few months ago that I had a different faith than Lyn, but I respected theirs. All I asked was to be respected in return.
[21:46] #knownspace> Dan: Nick visiting here so you could viit here too? I'd like that fine, but I don't know if I'll be working during Dragon.
[21:46] #knownspace> Dan: When iis it? Labor Day weekend?
[21:47] #knownspace> SeanS: i cant answer that
[21:47] #knownspace> Dan: I'll look it up. BRB...
[21:48] #knownspace> SeanS: lots of beer and frisbee golf
[21:48] #knownspace> Dan: Sept. 3-6, and I do have those days off!
[21:49] #knownspace> SeanS: i have nothing sccheduled for those days... guess i will be at your house
[21:49] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[21:50] #knownspace> Dan: I'll try to be finished remodeling the guest bedroom by then.
[21:50] #knownspace> SeanS: piece of floor is all i need
[21:51] #knownspace> Dan: That's what needs the repairs. I have to replace a couple of sq. ft. in the middle of the floor.
[21:52] #knownspace> SeanS: i hear ya
[21:57] #knownspace> Dan: It looks like it'll be a simple job to do. Too bad the carpet can't be salvaged, buy Lyn wants a hardwood (or imitation hardwood) floor in there and in the living room.
[21:58] #knownspace> SeanS: hardwood is good.
[21:58] #knownspace> SeanS: the robot loves it
[21:59] #knownspace> SeanS: my roomba is named taz
[21:59] #knownspace> Dan: I'm thinking of just laying down some wall paneling & putting 6 or 8 coats of polyurethane on it.
[22:02] #knownspace> SeanS: i am againstr polyurethane. waterlox is very expensive but a better product
[22:03] #knownspace> Dan: Never heard of that.
[22:04] #knownspace> SeanS: tis a great product but costs about 40 bucks a gallon
[22:05] #knownspace> Dan: Woah! Out of my range.
[22:05] #knownspace> SeanS: out of mine right now as well
[22:06] #knownspace> SeanS: but when i redo my floors thats what i will use
[22:06] #knownspace> SeanS: ever heard of spaced?
[22:07] #knownspace> Dan: The TV show? I think it's British...
[22:07] #knownspace> SeanS: edwards was talking it up earlier
[22:07] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah
[22:07] #knownspace> Dan: I've heard that it was OK, not great, but not bad.
[22:08] #knownspace> SeanS: he said it was better than young something... could be wrong
[22:09] #knownspace> SeanS: i could scroll up butr dont want to
[22:10] #knownspace> Dan: Not important.
[22:11] #knownspace> SeanS: 3 dead trolls in a baggy on
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[22:55] Fred has joined #knownspace
[23:06] #knownspace> Dan: Got to go to work in the morning. Goodnight!
[23:09] CCulpepper has joined #knownspace