Saturday, 6 November, 2010 - 12:00am
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[05:46] #knownspace> Akiraa: Have people considered using a hydrogen bomb to blask up to a few km of the crust of solar system bodies (like Europa)?
[05:52] #knownspace> Akiraa: s/blask/blast/
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[14:43] #knownspace> NickE: 'sup?
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[14:44] #knownspace> NickE: yo
[14:44] #knownspace> SolBelter: hi NickE
[14:44] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Sol
[14:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: i'm just in for a moment before eating
[14:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: looking for my handmeal :)
[14:45] #knownspace> NickE: ah, just eaten
[14:45] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[14:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: ok,back laterrrr...
[14:45] #knownspace> NickE: k
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[15:05] #knownspace> NickE: evenin'
[15:07] Larry has joined #knownspace
[15:07] #knownspace> Larry: Hello!
[15:08] #knownspace> Larry: anyone here? I mark myself as eight minutes late.
[15:09] #knownspace> dmac44: A few people, discussion hasn't started yet.
[15:10] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry, I recall you were working on a project with Bedford called Wokworld. Can you tell us about that?
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: Hi LArry
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: Bowl of Heaven
[15:12] #knownspace> dmac44: my mistake, Bowl of Heaven.
[15:13] #knownspace> NickE: Well, that was a name suggested here :-)
[15:14] #knownspace> Larry: Wokworld is now named The Bowl of Heaven and has become two books. It's in motion, but slow. Second book: Shipstar.
[15:15] #knownspace> NickE: Oh cool. Glad it hasn't stalled
[15:15] #knownspace> Larry: Greg Benford fizzes with ideas. It's two books because it grew too crowded.
[15:15] #knownspace> NickE: really looking forward to this
[15:16] #knownspace> dmac44: Shipstar sounds like moving the Bowl of Heaven by manipulating the central star
[15:17] #knownspace> Larry: Yes. The Bowl has been in motion for...a long time.
[15:18] #knownspace> NickE: intriguing
[15:20] #knownspace> NickE: That was quite a while back that this originally came up
[15:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi Larry! Sorry, I was multi-tasking.
[15:20] #knownspace> Lensman: I
[15:21] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm not going to be able to stay longer than a few minutes. My movie buff/home theatre group, the Laser Rangers, is having its Thanksgiving dinner this evening and I need to start setting the table for that.
[15:22] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry, are you also still planning to do a sequel to Burning Tower?
[15:22] #knownspace> NickE: I assume The Bowl is set in a standalone universe?
[15:24] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm pretty sure Larry wrote something about flaring the sun to turn the Ringworld into a starship, albeit a slowly accelerating one. Was that in "Bigger than Worlds" ?
[15:24] #knownspace> NickE: I believe so
[15:25] #knownspace> NickE: The actual solution of cousre was somewhat faster :-)
[15:25] #knownspace> NickE: Larry, any rough idea when Bowl might be ready?
[15:25] #knownspace> dmac44: very low acceleration or the ringworld wouldn't stay gravationally connected to its sun.
[15:26] #knownspace> Lensman: @Nick LOL! Yeah, by some several orders of magnitude.
[15:26] #knownspace> Lensman: But it *did* leave the sun behind.
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: But evena tiny aceleration can build up over time
[15:27] #knownspace> dmac44: i was speaking of flaring the sun for acceleration
[15:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Speaking of the Ringworld's sun... it irks me that we don't have a name for it.
[15:27] #knownspace> NickE: so does this mean that The Bowl is moving relativistically?
[15:27] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: just ask a City Builder.
[15:27] #knownspace> NickE: if it's been going a long time and uses something similar to the Ring/sun method/
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[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: "The Sun"
[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Xander
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: I'd love to!
[15:28] #knownspace> SeanS: HI all. Just got in from a bitterly fought Frankfort Youth Football game.
[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: did you win
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Hearth's ex-sun has two names; maybe they'll loan us one of theirs?
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, "Red Star" doesn't fit.
[15:29] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: Giver-of-Life and ?
[15:29] #knownspace> SeanS: har... no, my gf's son lost.
[15:29] #knownspace> AlexA: Good evening all
[15:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Bitterly fought... "At the end, it was hand-to-hand."
[15:29] #knownspace> AlexA: .t
[15:29] #knownspace> Outsider: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 19:29:39 GMT
[15:29] #knownspace> NickE: ah well
[15:29] #knownspace> SeanS: if you think about it, all football is hand to hand
[15:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Giver-of-Life and, as I said, "Red Star", if I recall correctly.
[15:30] #knownspace> Lensman: @Sean: Whizz...
[15:30] #knownspace> dmac44: Thanks, I didn't recall Red Star.
[15:30] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[15:30] #knownspace> AlexA: .weather egdm
[15:30] #knownspace> Outsider: Cloudy, 7℃, 1013mb, Light air 1kt (↑) - EGDM 18:50, 1850Z
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[15:32] #knownspace> SolBelter: re, NickE, hi Lensman, dmac, and Larry
[15:32] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: FOW hardcover p. 247
[15:32] #knownspace> AlexA: Recently finished "Juggler". I was a bit confused as what the Ousiders' secret was.
[15:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi SolBelter
[15:33] #knownspace> Larry: sorry all, got distracted.
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[15:33] #knownspace> EML: Afternoon, everyone
[15:33] #knownspace> AlexA: Are there meant to be many more or less than previuosly though - passage wasn't clear to me
[15:34] #knownspace> Larry: The Outsiders' secret is that they are few, too few to be as powerful as they seem.
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Ed
[15:34] #knownspace> SeanS: ah, Larry and Ed at the same time yet again. I feel privileged.
[15:34] #knownspace> Larry: Hi, Ed.
[15:34] #knownspace> EML: Greetings.
[15:34] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Thanks!
[15:35] #knownspace> Lensman: Alex: Siggy thinks the Outsiders are really not the galaxy-spanning race which has sold the secret of hyperdrive to hundreds of different races thruout the galaxy. He thinks they are much younger and are not so widely spread, simply because Ship #14 has a low number. He's wrong, of course; see the epilogue of /A Gift from Earth/.
[15:36] #knownspace> Larry: I got distracted because I'm gearing up for "Eutopiales", a literary convention in Nantes, France.
[15:36] #knownspace> AlexA: Lensman: Ok remind me of the epilogue
[15:36] #knownspace> EML: Lensman: The fact that the Outsiders CAN be blackmailed also supports Sigmund's theory.
[15:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Well of course, Larry as the creator of the KS universe has the right to declare previous statements null and void.
[15:36] #knownspace> dmac44: but they could still be spread very, very thinly.
[15:37] #knownspace> EML: Nothing in Juggler expresses an opinion (IIRC) about how widespread Outsiders are, only how much power they feel safe in trying to exert.
[15:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Alex: I don't really have time for that. You can read the Outsider entry in my Incompleat Known Space Concordance if you like.
[15:37] #knownspace> AlexA: Aldo the implication seemed to be that Starseads are part of Outsider life-cycle
[15:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Got to go... hate to miss a fascinating conversation!
[15:37] #knownspace> Larry: as the hisorian of Known Space, I have the right to become forgetful. Historians look for consistency, and so do I.
[15:38] #knownspace> EML: OUtsiders are few and frail, and dependent on carbon-based life for most of their metals.
[15:38] #knownspace> dmac44: Aren't narrative facts harder to retcon than conversational ones?
[15:38] #knownspace> SolBelter: seeya Lensman!
[15:38] #knownspace> EML: Bye, Lens.
[15:38] #knownspace> NickE: ttfn
[15:38] #knownspace> Larry: dmac44: sure.
[15:38] #knownspace> AlexA: Thanks & bye Lensman
[15:39] #knownspace> dmac44: See ya Lens.
[15:40] #knownspace> AlexA: So are the Outsiders playing a form of the "god game" from RW? :)
[15:40] #knownspace> dmac44: I have a question. Carbon based lifeforms can have psi powers in the KS universe. What about the Outsiders?
[15:40] #knownspace> EML: Some inconsistencies will creep in, and then one can only take one's pick. IMO, the trailing snippet of Gift from earth conflicts with everything else we know about Outsiders.
[15:41] #knownspace> Larry: I concieved Outsiders to be as alien as possible. Speculation is easy, but even I would be guessing.
[15:41] #knownspace> dmac44: fair enough.
[15:41] #knownspace> EML: I'm unaware of any indication of Outsider psi, and none of the Worlds books assume it.
[15:42] #knownspace> dmac44: I was thinking that psi is an emergent property of mind, and if so, then the Outsiders could have it.
[15:42] #knownspace> dmac44: or at least some form of it.
[15:42] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Leaving them a mystery is part of the fun - lets us speculate :)
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: one assumes that they must know of it at least - I've always assumed that teh Mass Pointer in Hyperdrive ships is an Outsider bit of tech (though I have no evidence for that)
[15:42] #knownspace> Larry: EML: Right. I gave telepathy to Kzinti, but otherwise only humans are psychic.
[15:43] #knownspace> dmac44: and Grogs
[15:43] #knownspace> NickE: And Brogs
[15:43] #knownspace> SeanS: they could but would it work across such incredibly different species as outsiders and carbon based life
[15:43] #knownspace> NickE: Grogs even
[15:43] #knownspace> NickE: and Dolphins, Thrint
[15:43] #knownspace> AlexA: Psi in KS: Slavers, Grogs, Humans & Kzinti
[15:44] #knownspace> EML: very limited in humans and Kzinti, IIRC.
[15:44] #knownspace> NickE: Dolphins
[15:44] #knownspace> dmac44: I thought the mass pointer required psi to work. If so, then aren't most species who use the mass pointer a little psi capable?
[15:44] #knownspace> Larry: You guys have caught me out. Yeah, lots of psy in early Niven. It was more nearly respectable then.
[15:44] #knownspace> NickE: not widespread
[15:45] #knownspace> SeanS: mass detector requires a mind... not psi
[15:45] #knownspace> AlexA: As latter two are evolved from food yeast it could be related ( Tnuctipun engineering?)
[15:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: I noticed that mass indicator in BoWorlds doesn't use a dog's brain anymore...
[15:45] #knownspace> NickE: and of course Bandersnatch are engineered immune to psi
[15:45] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: but what is a mind, protectors have minds but can't use a mass pointer. Ditto computers.
[15:46] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Werent there some experiments by MIT in 60s/70s that suggested psi was real?
[15:46] #knownspace> EML: Pak can use computers ... they don't see the need. refernece DOW.
[15:47] #knownspace> SeanS: i dont remember a reference where protectors cant use mass detectors
[15:47] #knownspace> NickE: I assume it's something more to do with teh unconcious. I'd guess an awake protector doesn't have an unoncious as it is processing with full awareness
[15:47] #knownspace> dmac44: EML: I meant to say that computers can't use a mass pointer just as Protectors acn't use a mass pointer.
[15:47] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: Ringworld
[15:47] #knownspace> EML: In RWC, Louis as a protector says he can't use a mass pointer.
[15:48] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: In "Children" Louis can't use it
[15:48] #knownspace> dmac44: Ringworld's Children
[15:48] #knownspace> SeanS: must of missed it the first time i read it. need to re-read
[15:48] #knownspace> EML: computers can't use mass pointers, but they can (if they know the territory well) fly through hyperspace blind.
[15:49] #knownspace> NickE: I think in th 60s and 70s it was assumed that proof of psi would be a "when" and not "if" question
[15:50] #knownspace> dmac44: yes, but the question is do mass pointers require mind or psi?
[15:50] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry EML: Will we learn any more about Slavers/Tnuctipun in future works?
[15:50] #knownspace> EML: SolBelter said: I noticed that mass indicator in BoWorlds doesn't use a dog's brain anymore... Huh??? When did one?
[15:50] #knownspace> EML: Alexa: not in near-term plans.
[15:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, the Outsiders certainly could be spread thinly. That doesn't mean they are not ancient, nor that they don't possess technology which is indistinguishable from magic. Siggy's speculation that they can't get metals on their own because they can't go to a star's inner solar system seems, well, let's say unlikely, given their level of technology. They *choose* not to use hyperdrive, that...
[15:51] #knownspace> Lensman: ...doesn't mean they *can't*. Similarly, it seems pretty obvious that they *could* send a robotic craft to the inner solar system to pick up a few metallic asteroids, even if they don't *choose* to so long as they have other races to trade with.
[15:51] #knownspace> NickE: I'd assume psi *potential* needed maybe
[15:51] #knownspace> Larry: Dogs brain: don't recall. Could you be remembering Cordwainer Smith?
[15:52] #knownspace> AlexA: EML: Ok thanks
[15:52] #knownspace> NickE: but then a human protector could do it, so thats out#
[15:52] #knownspace> Lensman: And even aside from that, there are plenty of "wandering planets" far from stars. Asteroids, too, undoubtedly. Surely the Outsiders can get all the metal they want, without that much difficulty.
[15:52] #knownspace> NickE: I'd assume so
[15:53] #knownspace> NickE: Asteroids tend to have low gravity = not a problem even for actual Outsiders to work on them
[15:53] #knownspace> dmac44: As I recall, Tunesmith in RWC had to build a special camera to see dark matter because he couldn't use a mass pointer.
[15:54] #knownspace> NickE: (Though they'd need to be in really cold space)
[15:54] #knownspace> AlexA: Will Bey's story be continued. "Home" could be interesting considering it's history ;)
[15:54] #knownspace> SolBelter: At Larry - I'll have to check dogbrain - in earliest KS stories; Cordwainer used a ratbrain at least once
[15:54] #knownspace> NickE: i.e not in teh Goldilocks zone ofa star
[15:54] #knownspace> dmac44: If you can protect yourself from junk coming at you at the spped of light then I wouldn't think the Outsiders would find a little heat difficult to deal with.
[15:55] #knownspace> NickE: no of course not - they use soem kind of fusion source to provide teh light in their own ships and are able to deal with human ships in close proximity
[15:56] #knownspace> NickE: so, getting metals, not an issue I'd say
[15:57] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Can you say anything about "Anvil"? What is connection, if any, to "Hammer"?
[15:57] #knownspace> EML: Just wondering ... how did we get into Outsiders today?
[15:57] #knownspace> NickE: As Larry said, they are very alien, so their motivations would be similarly obscure
[15:57] #knownspace> NickE: Heh, not sure, but why not :-)
[15:57] #knownspace> SeanS: someone asked about whether they were many or few
[15:58] #knownspace> AlexA: EML: I just finished "Juggler" and was a bit confused so asked about them :)
[15:58] #knownspace> Larry: Anvil: no connection to Lucifer's Hammer. And we've changed the name: "Samael's Forge". Starts in present time.
[15:58] #knownspace> EML: Alexa: opinions differ :-)
[15:59] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Thanks
[15:59] #knownspace> AlexA: EML: What was that an answer to - my qu about Bey?
[16:00] #knownspace> EML: Alexa: sorry, I fell behind. No near-term Bey plans, either.
[16:00] #knownspace> AlexA: .g Samael
[16:00] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA: http://www.samael.info/
[16:01] #knownspace> AlexA: .wiki Samael
[16:02] #knownspace> AlexA: .w Samael
[16:02] #knownspace> Outsider: Couldn't get any definitions for Samael.
[16:02] #knownspace> NickE: Larry, did you have a rough timeline for Bowl? Think that you may have mentioned it before, but I don't recall
[16:03] #knownspace> AlexA: Outsider: At least you didn't ask for a billion Stars :)
[16:03] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[16:03] #knownspace> SolBelter: ...and let me catch up - the name of 5th Worlds book is?
[16:04] #knownspace> Larry: I have no plans for Beowulf Shaeffer. Sometimes they just pop up.
[16:04] #knownspace> EML: Sol: #5 will be (current working title, anyway) FATE OF WORLDS
[16:05] #knownspace> SolBelter: thx EML - ut still a working title. Ok to quote that if we say 'working title'?
[16:05] #knownspace> SeanS: you can use this link to find a list of commands for the outsider bot. http://inamidst.com/phenny/
[16:05] #knownspace> EML: I'm okay with mentioning the working title. How about you, Larry?
[16:06] #knownspace> SolBelter: "Larry andEML discarded 'Pentology of Worlds' as book 5 title" :)
[16:06] #knownspace> Larry: I don't flinch from naming a working title. I think this one fits the book and the series.
[16:06] #knownspace> SolBelter: thank you both!
[16:07] #knownspace> EML: da nada
[16:07] #knownspace> SolBelter: the issue was proper courtesy to authors
[16:07] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: Thanks
[16:07] #knownspace> SeanS: np
[16:08] #knownspace> AlexA: .wik Samael
[16:08] #knownspace> Outsider: "Samael (Hebrew: סמאל) (also Sammael, perhaps 'Venom of God') is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is accuser, seducer and destroyer, and has been regarded as both good and evil." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael
[16:08] #knownspace> SolBelter: Sounds like Loik, Coyote, and Trickster are in Samael's family tree
[16:09] #knownspace> NickE: didn't that angel figure in Weaveworld by Clive Barker (at least in part?)
[16:09] #knownspace> SolBelter: Loki^
[16:09] #knownspace> NickE: (Was it Weaveworld, Carpet World oh blimey I've gone blank ;-)
[16:09] #knownspace> EML: Sol: Pentagram of Worlds sounds better ;-)
[16:10] #knownspace> Larry: Last issue of the comic "Ludifer" had the main character as Samael at one point.
[16:10] #knownspace> SolBelter: book six - Exorcist of Worlds
[16:11] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[16:11] #knownspace> Larry: "Pentagram of Worlds"--ah hell, we'll consider it.
[16:11] #knownspace> dmac44: lol
[16:11] #knownspace> EML: with Nessus as the, ahem, star?
[16:12] #knownspace> NickE:
[16:12] #knownspace> Larry: "Exorcist of worlds" doesn't work.
[16:12] #knownspace> SolBelter: I love my Michael Gilbert 'Fleet of Worlds' painting, and to see the Fleet revived after decades is great~!
[16:12] #knownspace> AlexA: So Samael = Angel of Death. Fitting
[16:13] #knownspace> NickE: Sol is having troubel staying on today
[16:13] #knownspace> EML: and when Puppeteers get moving *really* fast, perhaps the Pentathalon of Worlds.
[16:13] #knownspace> AlexA: The BBC TV "Horizon" science programme recently covered asteroids
[16:13] #knownspace> NickE: hehe
[16:14] #knownspace> NickE: Actually not a bad ep (the strand has been variable in recent years)
[16:14] #knownspace> NickE: Did you see the latest Deep Impact pics? V interesting shaped cometary nucleus
[16:15] #knownspace> AlexA: Apparently small asteroids are more destructive than previously thought - bad as they can't be detected until days out :(
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[16:15] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah, like a peanut
[16:15] #knownspace> NickE: wb Sol
[16:15] #knownspace> NickE: funky
[16:15] #knownspace> NickE: would guess it would be a good candidate to split
[16:15] #knownspace> dmac44: yeak, like 2 comets that hit and stuck together.
[16:15] #knownspace> NickE: or that :-)
[16:15] #knownspace> EML: my next solo deals with (among other things) NEOs.
[16:16] #knownspace> NickE: oho
[16:16] #knownspace> EML: and, perhaps, oh-oh.
[16:16] #knownspace> dmac44: eml: in one of your current universes or a new one?
[16:16] #knownspace> NickE: ah ha
[16:16] #knownspace> NickE: :-)
[16:16] #knownspace> EML: Doug: ENERGIZED is a standalone.
[16:17] #knownspace> SeanS: i need to go to lexington and pick up the intersteller net books. no decent book store here. hope i remembered the name right. ;)
[16:17] #knownspace> SolBelter:
[16:18] #knownspace> SolBelter: at EML - why 2 of yours never paperbacked?
[16:18] #knownspace> EML: SEan: INterstellarNet books are hard to find in brick-and-mortar stores. Best bet: order from the publisher, who has a twofer deal. See http://www.foxacre.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item=author.html&C..., bottom of the page.
[16:18] #knownspace> SolBelter: or at least not InPrint as pbs...
[16:19] #knownspace> SolBelter: [not counting InterstellNet ones]
[16:19] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Didn't you visit JPL recently? Research for "Samael"?
[16:19] #knownspace> EML: Sol: wishing the postman speedily on his rounds :-)
[16:20] #knownspace> SolBelter: hand deliveries by secretary, then Amazon for OP hardcovers
[16:20] #knownspace> EML: Sol "why 2 of yours never paperbacked?" which two? Or are you asking why only TPB?
[16:21] #knownspace> EML: IIRC, all my solos are available in PB or TPB.
[16:21] #knownspace> SeanS: EML, will throw that post to the gf... maybe an extra gift for christmas.
[16:22] #knownspace> AlexA: Did any of you watch "The Walking Dead"? I thought it was brilliant
[16:22] #knownspace> Larry: AlexA: no. Went to Google for Samael.
[16:22] #knownspace> EML: merry Xmas, Sean.
[16:22] #knownspace> SolBelter: at EML - 'Creative Destruction' and 'Moonstruck' http://www.amazon.com/Edward-M.-Lerner/e/B001IGSZLQ/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_...
[16:22] #knownspace> SeanS: we can hope anyway
[16:23] #knownspace> AlexA: (on AMC in US, FX in
[16:23] #knownspace> AlexA: Uk
[16:23] #knownspace> Larry: I'm off. Fare ye well all.
[16:24] #knownspace> SolBelter: you too
[16:24] #knownspace> NickE: nice to see Larry
[16:24] #knownspace> NickE: as it were
[16:24] #knownspace> EML: Sol: Creative Destruction is available in TPB, see: http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Destruction-Edward-M-Lerner/dp/0809557487...
[16:24] #knownspace> SolBelter: I stand corrected - Moonstruck was pbacked,
[16:25] #knownspace> SolBelter: ...and Creative Dest was TPB'ed
[16:25] #knownspace> SolBelter: 'My mind is going, Dave...I can feel it'
[16:25] #knownspace> EML: Moonstruck is mostly out of print (tho I'm trying to get another edition out there). Email me if you mighht want to buy one privately.
[16:26] #knownspace> SolBelter: k -thx
[16:26] #knownspace> EML: I'm kind of surprised no one's asked or commented about Betrayer. Too soon?
[16:27] #knownspace> SeanS: that is a birthday gift here that i will receive on the 27th.
[16:28] #knownspace> SeanS: so next chat, I will be all about betrayer chat.
[16:28] #knownspace> SolBelter: only 1/3rd thru - but I'd said to myself - 'they have to explain why Louis doesnt remember Bey, and what Louis' experiences on Wunderland were.'
[16:29] #knownspace> SolBelter: both answered :)
[16:29] #knownspace> SolBelter: i say no more
[16:29] #knownspace> SeanS: please no spoilers. ;)
[16:29] #knownspace> SolBelter: and didnt review *how* they answered those points
[16:30] #knownspace> SeanS: and i thank you
[16:31] #knownspace> EML: are y'all following the Ringworld 40th anniversary blog series at tor.com?
[16:31] #knownspace> dmac44: some :)
[16:31] #knownspace> EML: Those of you not writing it, that is?
[16:31] #knownspace> SeanS: i was asked to blog something
[16:32] #knownspace> SolBelter: So u dont want to know about the chapter where all their characters ever meet at a party? JOKE [stilol scarred by Heinlein Number of the Beast]
[16:32] #knownspace> SolBelter: I'm fascinated by all the different takes on KSpace at Tor
[16:33] #knownspace> SeanS: guess i should check it out.
[16:34] #knownspace> EML: I'd enjoy seeing the series expand to other KS stories.
[16:34] #knownspace> SolBelter: me too!
[16:35] #knownspace> SeanS: ed, i would love to see another smoke ring story but larry said no. work on that ;)
[16:35] #knownspace> NickE: indeed
[16:35] #knownspace> SeanS: not known space but what the hell
[16:35] #knownspace> EML: Sean: one more idea for the too-long queue.
[16:35] #knownspace> dmac44: EML: do you think Tor would have any interest in that?
[16:36] #knownspace> EML: Doug: interest in what? extending the blog series?
[16:36] #knownspace> dmac44: yes
[16:36] #knownspace> EML: I can't speak for them, but I'd guess, yes.
[16:37] #knownspace> SeanS: ringworld is great but i think my favorite knownspace stories are the slower than light ones.
[16:37] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: What would be your favorite story then?
[16:39] #knownspace> SeanS: protector ranks high. a gift from earth and world of ptavvs. bunch of short stories. the scene in WoP where pluto burns is incredible.
[16:39] #knownspace> dmac44: a gift from earth was my first Niven book.
[16:39] ronn has joined #knownspace
[16:40] #knownspace> SeanS: hi ronn
[16:40] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Ronn
[16:40] #knownspace> SolBelter: hi ronn
[16:40] #knownspace> ronn: Hi, all!
[16:40] #knownspace> NickE: brb (need beer to raise a glass to Frank for yesterday :-)
[16:40] #knownspace> SeanS: ronn, you missed Larry... he was getting ready for a trip to france
[16:40] #knownspace> SolBelter: checking Amazon re EML pbs, Moonstruck is OP, but 3 dealers offer 'new' condition...
[16:42] #knownspace> SeanS: ronn, your an astronomer right?
[16:43] #knownspace> SolBelter: ronn might prefer 'astrophysicist' :)) [I work for some in Second Life - MICA group]
[16:44] #knownspace> ronn: FWIW, the instructions at still say "There is an official larryniven.org irc chat server located at irc.larryniven.org . . . " rather than "irc.larryniven.org" . . .
[16:44] #knownspace> SolBelter: but now they look at data, not optical inputs in realtime, for the most part
[16:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: any preference, ronn?
[16:45] #knownspace> ronn: I meant, “FWIW, the instructions at still say "There is an official larryniven.org irc chat server located at irc.larryniven.org . . . " rather than "irc.larryniven.net" . . . ”
[16:46] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah, we had to change registrars and the old registrar wouldnt give up .org without money moving their way. I will mention it to mark
[16:46] #knownspace> SeanS: i was just looking for a recommendation
[16:46] #knownspace> EML: someone was not master of his domain?
[16:46] #knownspace> SeanS: they wanted too much money
[16:47] #knownspace> ronn: A preference as to what to be called? As opposed to "as long as you don't call me late for dinner"? :P
[16:47] #knownspace> AlexA: Back
[16:48] #knownspace> ronn: Yeah I remember the reason for the change, but I still find old links in the address book memory . . . like today.
[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: i have a loaner 9.25 inch schmidt cassegrain scope with an equatorial mount. the controller is fried. the mount is a Losmandy G-9. would i have to use another controller exactly like it or will others work?
[16:49] #knownspace> AlexA: .org is now German
[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: had to go down to the garage and look ;)
[16:50] #knownspace> ronn: Thought someone might wanna know about the old link.
[16:50] #knownspace> SolBelter: thx ronn
[16:50] #knownspace> SeanS: Mark is slowly and steadily going through and updating all the links... takes time and is a volunteer effort as you know
[16:51] #knownspace> AlexA: Is CrazyEddy a bot? He's always here but doesn't chat
[16:51] #knownspace> SeanS: no.. he is a guy in australia and i have only talked to him about 5 times
[16:52] #knownspace> SolBelter: we don't talk about it, but Eddy's ... Crazy.
[16:52] #knownspace> EML: but not my alter ego.
[16:52] #knownspace> SolBelter: joke, no disrespect toEddy
[16:52] #knownspace> SeanS: the only bots are Outsider and knownspaceARM. the ARM bot is the log bot
[16:52] #knownspace> AlexA: Ah right
[16:53] #knownspace> ronn: As to what title to use, astronomer is as good as anything, and is more familiar to most.
[16:53] #knownspace> AlexA: Is Outsider 's LNL biography lookup working - I can't remember the syntax?
[16:54] #knownspace> SeanS: http://inamidst.com/phenny/ list of outsider commands
[16:55] #knownspace> EML: I'm gonna wander off momentarily. Stuff needing to get finished ...
[16:55] #knownspace> SeanS: okay, ed. going to stay logged on?
[16:55] #knownspace> dmac44: Bye Ed.
[16:56] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: thought you or Mark had added bio lookup function
[16:56] #knownspace> SeanS: nope... guess i could look into it.
[16:56] #knownspace> AlexA: .bio ringworld
[16:56] #knownspace> ronn: If the question about the fried controller was supposed to be directed to me, I have no idea if there is a suitable substitute for the controller or if an exact match is required.
[16:56] #knownspace> SeanS: okay ronn.. thanks
[16:57] #knownspace> SeanS: bio lookup might be a feature of the website
[16:57] #knownspace> dmac44: Ed, before you go, Lensman has done a top notch job as editor for the Tor posts.
[16:57] #knownspace> SolBelter: i agree with dmac!
[16:58] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: Odd, I'm sure it was discussed, maybe my memory cheats!
[16:58] #knownspace> EML: Doug, Sol -- I agree. Lensman is doing a most commendable job.
[16:58] #knownspace> EML: okay ... off i go. till next month.
[16:58] #knownspace> SeanS: i will check with Neal who does my bot programming. you can add commands to the bot
[16:58] #knownspace> SeanS: later Ed
[16:58] #knownspace> AlexA: Bye Ed
[16:58] #knownspace> ronn: bye, Ed
[16:59] #knownspace> SolBelter: working with Lensman was i imagine a mini-collaboration and a good one We each listened to each other's reasons for changes and made them. Satisfying!
[16:59] #knownspace> AlexA: Anyone got a link for Tor RW stuff?
[16:59] #knownspace> dmac44: got to tor.com and search on "ringworld 40th"
[17:00] #knownspace> AlexA: .g ringworld 40th site:tor.com
[17:00] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2010/10/ringworld-40th-anniversary-introduction
[17:00] #knownspace> AlexA: :D
[17:00] #knownspace> SeanS: there ya go... from the speaking whatever of outsider
[17:01] #knownspace> SeanS: who sold the location of the ringworld to the puppeteers
[17:01] #knownspace> dmac44: supposively the outsiders
[17:01] #knownspace> SolBelter: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2010/10/ringworld-40th-anniversary-on-torcom has all the blogs
[17:02] #knownspace> SeanS: i bet i know most of the authors. ;)
[17:02] #knownspace> SolBelter: no bet :)
[17:02] #knownspace> SeanS: hehe
[17:03] #knownspace> NickE: some really good posts there
[17:03] #knownspace> SeanS: i will check it out
[17:05] #knownspace> NickE: and yeah some familiar names posting :-)
[17:05] #knownspace> SolBelter: ok all, off to real-life [RL] Have a good weekend!
[17:06] #knownspace> SeanS: good luck mining the asteroids.
[17:06] #knownspace> NickE: by Sol
[17:06] #knownspace> SolBelter: Alexaa - Nice demo of bio command
[17:07] #knownspace> SolBelter: that too Sean [mining EVE online asteroids]
[17:07] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[17:09] #knownspace> dmac44: I've got stuff to catch up on too. See you all next month.
[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: later dmac
[17:10] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: That response from Outsider was from the .g google search command
[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: i guess for that controller question, i need to find a good astronomy irc channel.
[17:11] #knownspace> SeanS: alexa, i know ;)
[17:11] #knownspace> SeanS: bio
[17:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Oops, that was meant to be @ Solbelter
[17:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Autosuggest messed up :(
[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: no worries. ;)
[17:14] #knownspace> AlexA: So none if you watched "The Walking Dead"? Shame
[17:14] #knownspace> SeanS: i think i saw a commercial for it. when was it on?
[17:16] #knownspace> SeanS: hmm, chatted that whole thing from an iphone.
[17:16] #knownspace> SeanS: i have so many typos when i use those things
[17:17] #knownspace> ronn: Re the controller: I suppose you have tried the web site for the telescope and/or the mount?
[17:17] #knownspace> SeanS: yah... 200 bucks for a new board
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: 400 bucks for the whole controller
[17:18] #knownspace> ronn: And . . . you are looking for something cheaper.
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: the controller is very basic.
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: well, kinda thinking a goto
[17:19] #knownspace> SeanS: which would be more expensive most likely
[17:19] #knownspace> SeanS: dont know much about them which is why i asked an astronomer who may or may not know
[17:20] #knownspace> NickE: gonna sme
[17:20] #knownspace> NickE: opps
[17:21] #knownspace> ronn: Technically that's not so much an astronomy question as one about electronics . . .
[17:21] AlexA has joined #knownspace
[17:21] #knownspace> SeanS: true.. but i would figure an astronomer might have one out in the yard as well for fun
[17:21] #knownspace> AlexA: My battery died :(
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: i commented about the iphone thing. here
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: hmm, chatted that whole thing from an iphone.
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: i have so many typos when i use those things
[17:22] #knownspace> ronn: I don't suppose you know anyone who could troubleshoot the board for you and find out if there is something that can be fixed .
[17:23] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: Walking Dead was on Hallowe'en night in US & last night in UK
[17:23] #knownspace> SeanS: good idea but no
[17:23] #knownspace> ronn: No, I don't have that kind of budget.
[17:24] #knownspace> NickE: gonna sneak in a favour request: from tomorrow, could some of you nominate The Signal podcast in the categories Best Parduced and Movies and Films over at www.podcastawards.com you only need to nominate us once(in fact multiple noms count as cheating!) and just in those 2 categories. We're hoping to get our second podcasting award (and exposure for Firefly fandom) this year. Thanks
[17:24] #knownspace> SeanS: me either really.. like i said. this is a loaner but i may have it for years. the owner bought a 16 inch dobsonian and this was just collecting dust in his garage
[17:25] #knownspace> NickE: No, didn't see The WAlking Dead - was hat on terrestrial TV in the UK?
[17:27] #knownspace> AlexA: FX in UK - which is on Sky, but not Virgin apparently
[17:27] #knownspace> SeanS: i was still recovering from my halloween party on saturday. in fact most of the people here were probably still recovering until really late sunday
[17:28] #knownspace> NickE: ah, don't have any subscription TV
[17:28] #knownspace> AlexA: I guess a terrestrial broadcaster may show it later
[17:28] #knownspace> AlexA: Or the DVD or torrents
[17:29] #knownspace> NickE: don't torrent, but is it good?
[17:33] #knownspace> AlexA: I loved it & reviews are very possitive. I read first few TPBs if the comic first though
[17:34] #knownspace> NickE: ah
[17:34] #knownspace> AlexA: Pilot is very cinematic - it is directed by Darrabont (sp)
[17:34] #knownspace> NickE: Will keep and eye out
[17:40] #knownspace> AlexA: The first sticks close to comic with a few additions. Next ep is more original from the trailer
[17:41] #knownspace> SeanS: i never read the comic
[17:43] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: I don't usually read comics, only read these because TV series was coming
[17:47] #knownspace> SeanS: I understand... i am just overloaded with media right now and really dont see any end in sight.
[17:50] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: I know the feeling: my pvr is half full & I have loads of unwatched DVDs
[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah, also figure that i am a computer guy with an 8 meg connection and a low ethical standard with regard to media. ;)
[17:54] #knownspace> ronn: Okay . . . no one can blame *me* this time for starting a flame war over copyright . . . :D
[17:55] #knownspace> SeanS: lensman is doing something else
[17:56] #knownspace> SeanS: whenever someone offers something, he is the one that goes nuts.
[17:58] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: Did you get round to watching "Star Cops"?
[17:58] #knownspace> SeanS: the thing with a tv show is exactly like Nick said. it will show up on hulu or something at some point
[17:59] #knownspace> SeanS: i pulled 3 eps of star cops and could not get into it
[18:00] #knownspace> AlexA: Fair enough. It's not perfect, but best hard SF show Ive seen IMHO
[18:00] #knownspace> SeanS: i may not of given it enough of a chance... will try again in a couple of years. keep reminding me
[18:03] #knownspace> AlexA: It is 80s tv done on a BBC budget, but the scripts shine through
[18:04] #knownspace> AlexA: Ok guys I think I'll go and consume some media
[18:04] #knownspace> SeanS: i am good with 80s bbc... i might not of been it the right mindset to watch it if you know what i mean. i have only tried once
[18:05] #knownspace> SeanS: charge your phone.
[18:05] #knownspace> AlexA: Glad to have made it thus time - great to have Larry in & Eds always good value
[18:05] #knownspace> SeanS: thats why i maintain the irc server
[18:05] #knownspace> AlexA: iPod Touch actually!
[18:06] #knownspace> SeanS: i cant type on those worth a shit either
[18:07] #knownspace> AlexA: Well its much better than my LG Cookie touchscreen phone - that needs a stylus & is awful in comparison :(
[18:07] #knownspace> AlexA: See you later!
[18:07] #knownspace> SeanS: i dont do cell phones so lack of experience is the problem for me
[18:08] #knownspace> SeanS: later
[18:08] #knownspace> AlexA: Cheers
[19:09] #knownspace> Akiraa: hi
[19:11] #knownspace> Akiraa: so is Star Cops any good?
[19:45] #knownspace> NickE: nite
[19:50] Dan has joined #knownspace
[19:52] #knownspace> Dan: I suppose I missed everything. Couldn't be helped- We had to take the trash to the county landfill & then go shopping. :)
[20:19] #knownspace> Dan: I ordered RAM for the 2 Dell laptops today. When it arrives I'll have both of them maxed out. The C610 is still updating the Ubuntu install- After 4 or 5 days, the update process is now at roughly 60%. Who knew it was gonna take this long? LOL!
[20:21] #knownspace> Dan: I've been thinking about using the SUSE CD to make the computer in the living room dual-boot Win XP/SUSE Linux. But I'm going to wait and see how much I like Ubuntu on the laptop before I commit.
[20:21] #knownspace> Akiraa: Dan, you are doing TSP optimizations, right?
[20:23] #knownspace> Akiraa: linux is always a headache, you sort of have to live with it for a few months before it breaks in
[20:23] #knownspace> Dan: I haven't the foggiest. I did the install, then the first thing that popped up was Update Manager. I clicked on Update All, and it's been downloading & installing the latest versions of the stuff it installed ever since.
[20:24] #knownspace> Akiraa: you shoulg get Mint and not Ubuntu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint
[20:24] #knownspace> Akiraa: ubuntu has no native support for mp3, JVM or Flash or video card drivers etc...
[20:25] #knownspace> Dan: I've never use any sort of Linux before, but Sean kept after me to try it and see why it was so dramatically superior to every other OS on the planet.
[20:25] #knownspace> Akiraa: it's not, it's just free and with some tweaking it's OK for office apps & browsing
[20:26] #knownspace> Dan: Yet Sean also continually complains about stuff that isn't available for Linux that I can just click on and use in Win XP. :)
[20:28] #knownspace> Dan: I looked up what Linux would function best on a Dell C610 laptop that's a decade or more old and Ubuntu was the top of that list.
[20:29] #knownspace> Akiraa: it would work fine on any hardware
[20:29] #knownspace> Akiraa: having to reformat the main partition is not as pressing an issue
[20:29] #knownspace> Akiraa: i.e. no significant performance degradation over time as in windows
[20:29] #knownspace> Dan: I was basically just trying to avoid having the thing turn into a doorstop on me. I have a newer Dell C810 and a brand new ASUS netbook as well.
[20:30] #knownspace> Akiraa: you can install ubuntu from wubi
[20:30] #knownspace> Dan: Ubuntu set itself up as a dual-boot with the Win 2000 already on the thing.
[20:30] #knownspace> Akiraa: it's a windows app that installs linux in a file on a NTFS partition
[20:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: and to uninstall linux, just boot up windows and select "uninstall" from control panel
[20:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/windows-installer
[20:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: easiest way to install and uninstall ubuntu
[20:32] #knownspace> Dan: Not a problem. I just wanted to see what the fuss was about with a free download rather than buying yet another Win XP full install CD off of eBay.
[20:32] #knownspace> Akiraa: but I'd recommend getting Mint
[20:33] #knownspace> Akiraa: you can also try to install in a vmware VM
[20:34] #knownspace> Akiraa: you can give the ubuntu VM some 500MB of RAM and it'll work fine
[20:34] #knownspace> Dan: The ASUS is now my primary travel 'puter, and the 2 Dell laptops will be re-purposed to some job or other here in the house. I also have several desktop 'puters for various jobs here in the house as well.
[20:37] #knownspace> Dan: I ordered 2 of the 512 RAM strips for the C610 that'll be running Ubuntu, and another 256 for the C810. That'll max both of them out.
[20:39] #knownspace> Dan: Odd how the older laptop can use twice as much RAM as the newer one. I wonder why that is?
[20:40] #knownspace> Dan: I'll still have to replace the hard drives in both Dells to make them really useful. They both have 20 Gb hard drives, while the ASUS netbook came with a 180 Gb hard drive.
[20:40] #knownspace> Akiraa: computer stores stick it to their customers bigtime
[20:41] #knownspace> Akiraa: I've seen 5 year old systems on sale
[20:42] #knownspace> Dan: I got both of the Dells used. The C810 was free from work, the C610 I got from a mail order catalog for a couple of hundred $$.
[20:44] #knownspace> Dan: 3 of the desktop 'puters in the house were given to me. My main workhorse desktop I had built at a local shop, but I've upgraded it myself since then.
[20:46] #knownspace> Dan: I can do hardware, LOL! It's just software that gives me headaches.
[20:48] #knownspace> Dan: I've got a dead IBM Thinkpad laptop I keep meaning to box up and send to Sean so he can make a pictureframe out of it, or somehthing. :)
[20:51] #knownspace> Dan: Just bought a new Cannon scanner/printer at WalMart today to hook up into the household LAN so that my wife can scann a few acres of photographs she has laying around, as well as her family geneology paperwork. We've already got a great HP printer that'll serve us for years yet as a general workhorse.
[21:22] #knownspace> SeanS: hi dan
[21:23] #knownspace> SeanS: been on phone with julie for 2 hours.
[21:27] #knownspace> Akiraa: Movieplot terrorist scenario: an evil corporation builds a giant solar shade, 6 months of sunless winter triggers a new ice age.
[21:28] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[21:28] #knownspace> SeanS: sounds like scifi channel bs
[21:30] #knownspace> Dan: Sounds a little like a plot point from an Arthur C. Clarke novel where the aliens put a polarizing sunshade in orbit to convince the humans of their power & tech abilities.
[21:30] #knownspace> Akiraa: the scenario would be, the evil corporation wins a large contract to build a small shade to combat global warming
[21:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: but they build it 10 times bigger :)
[21:32] #knownspace> SeanS: well.. my opinion on global warming
[21:32] #knownspace> Dan: Same as mine? Bring it on!
[21:34] #knownspace> SeanS: man made... bull shit... if there was man made global warming it would of happened in the 40's and 50's when you couldnt see towns due to smog
[21:34] #knownspace> SeanS: now, everthing is clean...
[21:35] #knownspace> Akiraa: massive capital diverted into this green monster
[21:36] #knownspace> SeanS: if man did it, why does every other rocky body in the solar system heat the same as earth... maybe a large ball of fusiion in the middle of the solar system?
[21:36] #knownspace> SeanS: and the amount of global heating is a whopping .1C
[21:37] #knownspace> Akiraa: but remember the polar bears
[21:37] #knownspace> Akiraa: disregard that they survived several ice ages and warmings before humans came along
[21:37] #knownspace> Dan: I'm all for clean air and reducing man-made polution, but from what I've read the entire solar system is undergoing a hot spell.
[21:37] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah... 1 dead out of a herd of 30.... oops... now more than 300
[21:38] #knownspace> SeanS: obiviiously, i scoff at man made global warming
[21:40] #knownspace> SeanS: if i met al gore face to face, i would smack the lliving shit out of him
[21:41] #knownspace> SeanS: he just bought a house on the water..... but i thought he said that the water would rise to the point that his own new house would be under. talk about a hypocrit
[21:43] #knownspace> Dan: He also had a huge home that wastes loads of power, and uses a big jet plane to fly around to his global warming lectures all over the world.
[21:43] #knownspace> SeanS: true
[21:44] #knownspace> Dan: His carbon footprint is larger than the footprint of the county I live in, and a couple of the nearby counties as well.
[21:45] #knownspace> SeanS: most likely
[21:45] #knownspace> SeanS: so everybody should go back to horse and buggy days to 'save the planet' except him
[21:46] #knownspace> Dan: In other news, Certain-Teed/Saint Gobain have started manufacturing roofing shingles that are solar panels. Score 1 point for the company I work for!
[21:47] #knownspace> SeanS: one volcano puts out more stuff than we ever have and i need to cut back
[21:47] #knownspace> SeanS: thaats cool
[21:48] #knownspace> Dan: Once the price goes down to something reasonable, I'll be re-roofing my house.
[21:48] #knownspace> Dan: I'll get an employee discount, too.
[21:48] #knownspace> SeanS: i have no problem with stuff like that
[21:49] #knownspace> Dan: 20% off retail, or better.
[21:49] #knownspace> SeanS: shingle hard to do on a flat roof
[21:50] #knownspace> Dan: Used to be 35% off, but I don't know what cutbacks have been put in place since the housing market tanked.
[21:52] #knownspace> SeanS: lets see what happens in the next couple months... ultra liberal friend of mine made the comment today that he didnt understand why they elected republicans this time.... i did not fight
[21:55] #knownspace> Dan: News Flash: Changing politicians will make no difference whatsoever! Film at 11!
[21:58] #knownspace> SeanS: i think the people spoke for the most part and they better do better.
[21:58] #knownspace> Dan: Sorry, I'm a little cynical.
[21:58] #knownspace> SeanS: so am i
[21:59] #knownspace> SeanS: i wish you lived around the corner instead of 6 hours away... i would take the scope out.
[22:00] #knownspace> Dan: I can't see that exchanging one branch of the Amateur Mafia for another is gonna change a damn thing. The cost of everything is still going to go up, the value of everything is still going to go down, taxes are going to get higher, and jobs are still going to get shipped out of the country to protect Big Business from losing their unfair share of their profit margins.
[22:01] #knownspace> SeanS: the fair tax would fix most of that but it will never be passed
[22:02] #knownspace> Dan: I agree, a flat sales tax will never happen a long as the government is allowed t pocket most of the collected tax monies.
[22:03] #knownspace> SeanS: not the gov't... politicians who get money for putting in loopholes
[22:04] #knownspace> Dan: Pass a law forcing all politicians to be paid no more than minimum wage, with mandatory life-at-hard-labor prison sentences for any politico who accepts outside funding for any reason.
[22:05] #knownspace> SeanS: good luck
[22:05] #knownspace> SeanS: i agree... but good luck
[22:05] #knownspace> SeanS: same chance as the fair tax... nil
[22:05] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, I'm not stupid enough to think that's even possible. But I'd loveto see it hapen.
[22:06] #knownspace> Dan: I'm frickin freezing here!
[22:06] #knownspace> SeanS: really? i am sure it is colder here
[22:07] #knownspace> Dan: I'm sure that you're right. You're 600 miles further North of us.
[22:07] #knownspace> SeanS: i want 30 degrees of global warming in the winter... maybe 10 degrees of global cooling in the summer and a nice global breeze
[22:08] #knownspace> Dan: And cheap beer!
[22:08] #knownspace> SeanS: with ya there
[22:10] #knownspace> SeanS: i would call except lyn would probablly want to drunk talk to my drunk butt and i am thinking about crashing.
[22:11] #knownspace> SeanS: i think i will.
[22:11] #knownspace> Dan: She's not drunk yet. Only on her 3rd glass of wine.
[22:11] #knownspace> Dan: I hope you edit this shit out of the chat logs!
[22:12] #knownspace> Dan: :)
[22:12] #knownspace> SeanS: i can
[22:12] #knownspace> SeanS: usually i just send 12am to 12 am
[22:13] #knownspace> Dan: OK, got the new phone from the living room. It has better batteries than the old one.
[22:13] #knownspace> SeanS: tis linux... all text all the time
[22:13] #knownspace> SeanS: easy to edit
[22:14] #knownspace> SeanS: lensman asked me to remove his email addy from the last chat. dont know why
[22:14] #knownspace> Dan: Chop everything from 6PM tonight and I think we'll be safe. LOL!
[22:15] #knownspace> SeanS: i was about to type something rude and stopped myself
[22:16] #knownspace> Dan: I'd rather think that you & I & Akiraa can express our opinions without the need to self-edit for posterity.
[22:16] #knownspace> SeanS: copy and paste and cut works quite well in linux
[22:17] #knownspace> Dan: Ok, OK, I've downloaded & installed Ubuntu already! Next week when it finished updating itself I may even get a chance to use it. LOL!
[22:17] #knownspace> SeanS: well, you know what soob and i think of each other
[22:18] #knownspace> Dan: Dunno what Sooby thinks of you, but I am aware of what you think of him. "Killfiled, forever..."
[22:18] #knownspace> SeanS: pretty much
[22:19] #knownspace> Dan: If you want to call, Lyn is probably more sober than am I at the moment, LOL!
[22:20] #knownspace> SeanS: i think i am going to go to bed. been drinking beer since about 3:30
[22:20] #knownspace> Dan: OK, sounds like a plan!
[22:20] #knownspace> SeanS: dont want to inflict myself and my giant dog wants company
[22:20] #knownspace> Dan: I've got a scanner to un-box and figure out how & where to hook up.
[22:21] #knownspace> Dan: That's my plan for part of tomorrow.
[22:21] #knownspace> SeanS: cool... later dan
[22:22] #knownspace> Dan: Got to finish the dog pen and unload the doghouse igloo we bought today, too.
[22:22] #knownspace> SeanS: gonna put a bunch on the play list
[22:22] #knownspace> Dan: Goodnight, Sean!
[22:22] #knownspace> SeanS: the sat dies for updates around 2
[22:25] #knownspace> Dan: I'm gonna log out and find something to read. Goodnight!
[05:46] #knownspace> Akiraa: Have people considered using a hydrogen bomb to blask up to a few km of the crust of solar system bodies (like Europa)?
[05:52] #knownspace> Akiraa: s/blask/blast/
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[14:43] #knownspace> NickE: 'sup?
[14:44] SolBelter has joined #knownspace
[14:44] #knownspace> NickE: yo
[14:44] #knownspace> SolBelter: hi NickE
[14:44] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Sol
[14:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: i'm just in for a moment before eating
[14:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: looking for my handmeal :)
[14:45] #knownspace> NickE: ah, just eaten
[14:45] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[14:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: ok,back laterrrr...
[14:45] #knownspace> NickE: k
[14:46] SolBelter has joined #knownspace
[15:00] dmac44 has joined #knownspace
[15:03] Lensman has joined #knownspace
[15:05] #knownspace> NickE: evenin'
[15:07] Larry has joined #knownspace
[15:07] #knownspace> Larry: Hello!
[15:08] #knownspace> Larry: anyone here? I mark myself as eight minutes late.
[15:09] #knownspace> dmac44: A few people, discussion hasn't started yet.
[15:10] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry, I recall you were working on a project with Bedford called Wokworld. Can you tell us about that?
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: Hi LArry
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: Bowl of Heaven
[15:12] #knownspace> dmac44: my mistake, Bowl of Heaven.
[15:13] #knownspace> NickE: Well, that was a name suggested here :-)
[15:14] #knownspace> Larry: Wokworld is now named The Bowl of Heaven and has become two books. It's in motion, but slow. Second book: Shipstar.
[15:15] #knownspace> NickE: Oh cool. Glad it hasn't stalled
[15:15] #knownspace> Larry: Greg Benford fizzes with ideas. It's two books because it grew too crowded.
[15:15] #knownspace> NickE: really looking forward to this
[15:16] #knownspace> dmac44: Shipstar sounds like moving the Bowl of Heaven by manipulating the central star
[15:17] #knownspace> Larry: Yes. The Bowl has been in motion for...a long time.
[15:18] #knownspace> NickE: intriguing
[15:20] #knownspace> NickE: That was quite a while back that this originally came up
[15:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi Larry! Sorry, I was multi-tasking.
[15:20] #knownspace> Lensman: I
[15:21] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm not going to be able to stay longer than a few minutes. My movie buff/home theatre group, the Laser Rangers, is having its Thanksgiving dinner this evening and I need to start setting the table for that.
[15:22] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry, are you also still planning to do a sequel to Burning Tower?
[15:22] #knownspace> NickE: I assume The Bowl is set in a standalone universe?
[15:24] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm pretty sure Larry wrote something about flaring the sun to turn the Ringworld into a starship, albeit a slowly accelerating one. Was that in "Bigger than Worlds" ?
[15:24] #knownspace> NickE: I believe so
[15:25] #knownspace> NickE: The actual solution of cousre was somewhat faster :-)
[15:25] #knownspace> NickE: Larry, any rough idea when Bowl might be ready?
[15:25] #knownspace> dmac44: very low acceleration or the ringworld wouldn't stay gravationally connected to its sun.
[15:26] #knownspace> Lensman: @Nick LOL! Yeah, by some several orders of magnitude.
[15:26] #knownspace> Lensman: But it *did* leave the sun behind.
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: But evena tiny aceleration can build up over time
[15:27] #knownspace> dmac44: i was speaking of flaring the sun for acceleration
[15:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Speaking of the Ringworld's sun... it irks me that we don't have a name for it.
[15:27] #knownspace> NickE: so does this mean that The Bowl is moving relativistically?
[15:27] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: just ask a City Builder.
[15:27] #knownspace> NickE: if it's been going a long time and uses something similar to the Ring/sun method/
[15:28] AlexA has joined #knownspace
[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: "The Sun"
[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Xander
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: I'd love to!
[15:28] #knownspace> SeanS: HI all. Just got in from a bitterly fought Frankfort Youth Football game.
[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: did you win
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Hearth's ex-sun has two names; maybe they'll loan us one of theirs?
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, "Red Star" doesn't fit.
[15:29] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: Giver-of-Life and ?
[15:29] #knownspace> SeanS: har... no, my gf's son lost.
[15:29] #knownspace> AlexA: Good evening all
[15:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Bitterly fought... "At the end, it was hand-to-hand."
[15:29] #knownspace> AlexA: .t
[15:29] #knownspace> Outsider: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 19:29:39 GMT
[15:29] #knownspace> NickE: ah well
[15:29] #knownspace> SeanS: if you think about it, all football is hand to hand
[15:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Giver-of-Life and, as I said, "Red Star", if I recall correctly.
[15:30] #knownspace> Lensman: @Sean: Whizz...
[15:30] #knownspace> dmac44: Thanks, I didn't recall Red Star.
[15:30] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[15:30] #knownspace> AlexA: .weather egdm
[15:30] #knownspace> Outsider: Cloudy, 7℃, 1013mb, Light air 1kt (↑) - EGDM 18:50, 1850Z
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[15:31] SolBelter has joined #knownspace
[15:32] #knownspace> SolBelter: re, NickE, hi Lensman, dmac, and Larry
[15:32] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: FOW hardcover p. 247
[15:32] #knownspace> AlexA: Recently finished "Juggler". I was a bit confused as what the Ousiders' secret was.
[15:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi SolBelter
[15:33] #knownspace> Larry: sorry all, got distracted.
[15:33] EML has joined #knownspace
[15:33] #knownspace> EML: Afternoon, everyone
[15:33] #knownspace> AlexA: Are there meant to be many more or less than previuosly though - passage wasn't clear to me
[15:34] #knownspace> Larry: The Outsiders' secret is that they are few, too few to be as powerful as they seem.
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Ed
[15:34] #knownspace> SeanS: ah, Larry and Ed at the same time yet again. I feel privileged.
[15:34] #knownspace> Larry: Hi, Ed.
[15:34] #knownspace> EML: Greetings.
[15:34] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Thanks!
[15:35] #knownspace> Lensman: Alex: Siggy thinks the Outsiders are really not the galaxy-spanning race which has sold the secret of hyperdrive to hundreds of different races thruout the galaxy. He thinks they are much younger and are not so widely spread, simply because Ship #14 has a low number. He's wrong, of course; see the epilogue of /A Gift from Earth/.
[15:36] #knownspace> Larry: I got distracted because I'm gearing up for "Eutopiales", a literary convention in Nantes, France.
[15:36] #knownspace> AlexA: Lensman: Ok remind me of the epilogue
[15:36] #knownspace> EML: Lensman: The fact that the Outsiders CAN be blackmailed also supports Sigmund's theory.
[15:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Well of course, Larry as the creator of the KS universe has the right to declare previous statements null and void.
[15:36] #knownspace> dmac44: but they could still be spread very, very thinly.
[15:37] #knownspace> EML: Nothing in Juggler expresses an opinion (IIRC) about how widespread Outsiders are, only how much power they feel safe in trying to exert.
[15:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Alex: I don't really have time for that. You can read the Outsider entry in my Incompleat Known Space Concordance if you like.
[15:37] #knownspace> AlexA: Aldo the implication seemed to be that Starseads are part of Outsider life-cycle
[15:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Got to go... hate to miss a fascinating conversation!
[15:37] #knownspace> Larry: as the hisorian of Known Space, I have the right to become forgetful. Historians look for consistency, and so do I.
[15:38] #knownspace> EML: OUtsiders are few and frail, and dependent on carbon-based life for most of their metals.
[15:38] #knownspace> dmac44: Aren't narrative facts harder to retcon than conversational ones?
[15:38] #knownspace> SolBelter: seeya Lensman!
[15:38] #knownspace> EML: Bye, Lens.
[15:38] #knownspace> NickE: ttfn
[15:38] #knownspace> Larry: dmac44: sure.
[15:38] #knownspace> AlexA: Thanks & bye Lensman
[15:39] #knownspace> dmac44: See ya Lens.
[15:40] #knownspace> AlexA: So are the Outsiders playing a form of the "god game" from RW? :)
[15:40] #knownspace> dmac44: I have a question. Carbon based lifeforms can have psi powers in the KS universe. What about the Outsiders?
[15:40] #knownspace> EML: Some inconsistencies will creep in, and then one can only take one's pick. IMO, the trailing snippet of Gift from earth conflicts with everything else we know about Outsiders.
[15:41] #knownspace> Larry: I concieved Outsiders to be as alien as possible. Speculation is easy, but even I would be guessing.
[15:41] #knownspace> dmac44: fair enough.
[15:41] #knownspace> EML: I'm unaware of any indication of Outsider psi, and none of the Worlds books assume it.
[15:42] #knownspace> dmac44: I was thinking that psi is an emergent property of mind, and if so, then the Outsiders could have it.
[15:42] #knownspace> dmac44: or at least some form of it.
[15:42] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Leaving them a mystery is part of the fun - lets us speculate :)
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: one assumes that they must know of it at least - I've always assumed that teh Mass Pointer in Hyperdrive ships is an Outsider bit of tech (though I have no evidence for that)
[15:42] #knownspace> Larry: EML: Right. I gave telepathy to Kzinti, but otherwise only humans are psychic.
[15:43] #knownspace> dmac44: and Grogs
[15:43] #knownspace> NickE: And Brogs
[15:43] #knownspace> SeanS: they could but would it work across such incredibly different species as outsiders and carbon based life
[15:43] #knownspace> NickE: Grogs even
[15:43] #knownspace> NickE: and Dolphins, Thrint
[15:43] #knownspace> AlexA: Psi in KS: Slavers, Grogs, Humans & Kzinti
[15:44] #knownspace> EML: very limited in humans and Kzinti, IIRC.
[15:44] #knownspace> NickE: Dolphins
[15:44] #knownspace> dmac44: I thought the mass pointer required psi to work. If so, then aren't most species who use the mass pointer a little psi capable?
[15:44] #knownspace> Larry: You guys have caught me out. Yeah, lots of psy in early Niven. It was more nearly respectable then.
[15:44] #knownspace> NickE: not widespread
[15:45] #knownspace> SeanS: mass detector requires a mind... not psi
[15:45] #knownspace> AlexA: As latter two are evolved from food yeast it could be related ( Tnuctipun engineering?)
[15:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: I noticed that mass indicator in BoWorlds doesn't use a dog's brain anymore...
[15:45] #knownspace> NickE: and of course Bandersnatch are engineered immune to psi
[15:45] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: but what is a mind, protectors have minds but can't use a mass pointer. Ditto computers.
[15:46] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Werent there some experiments by MIT in 60s/70s that suggested psi was real?
[15:46] #knownspace> EML: Pak can use computers ... they don't see the need. refernece DOW.
[15:47] #knownspace> SeanS: i dont remember a reference where protectors cant use mass detectors
[15:47] #knownspace> NickE: I assume it's something more to do with teh unconcious. I'd guess an awake protector doesn't have an unoncious as it is processing with full awareness
[15:47] #knownspace> dmac44: EML: I meant to say that computers can't use a mass pointer just as Protectors acn't use a mass pointer.
[15:47] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: Ringworld
[15:47] #knownspace> EML: In RWC, Louis as a protector says he can't use a mass pointer.
[15:48] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: In "Children" Louis can't use it
[15:48] #knownspace> dmac44: Ringworld's Children
[15:48] #knownspace> SeanS: must of missed it the first time i read it. need to re-read
[15:48] #knownspace> EML: computers can't use mass pointers, but they can (if they know the territory well) fly through hyperspace blind.
[15:49] #knownspace> NickE: I think in th 60s and 70s it was assumed that proof of psi would be a "when" and not "if" question
[15:50] #knownspace> dmac44: yes, but the question is do mass pointers require mind or psi?
[15:50] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry EML: Will we learn any more about Slavers/Tnuctipun in future works?
[15:50] #knownspace> EML: SolBelter said: I noticed that mass indicator in BoWorlds doesn't use a dog's brain anymore... Huh??? When did one?
[15:50] #knownspace> EML: Alexa: not in near-term plans.
[15:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, the Outsiders certainly could be spread thinly. That doesn't mean they are not ancient, nor that they don't possess technology which is indistinguishable from magic. Siggy's speculation that they can't get metals on their own because they can't go to a star's inner solar system seems, well, let's say unlikely, given their level of technology. They *choose* not to use hyperdrive, that...
[15:51] #knownspace> Lensman: ...doesn't mean they *can't*. Similarly, it seems pretty obvious that they *could* send a robotic craft to the inner solar system to pick up a few metallic asteroids, even if they don't *choose* to so long as they have other races to trade with.
[15:51] #knownspace> NickE: I'd assume psi *potential* needed maybe
[15:51] #knownspace> Larry: Dogs brain: don't recall. Could you be remembering Cordwainer Smith?
[15:52] #knownspace> AlexA: EML: Ok thanks
[15:52] #knownspace> NickE: but then a human protector could do it, so thats out#
[15:52] #knownspace> Lensman: And even aside from that, there are plenty of "wandering planets" far from stars. Asteroids, too, undoubtedly. Surely the Outsiders can get all the metal they want, without that much difficulty.
[15:52] #knownspace> NickE: I'd assume so
[15:53] #knownspace> NickE: Asteroids tend to have low gravity = not a problem even for actual Outsiders to work on them
[15:53] #knownspace> dmac44: As I recall, Tunesmith in RWC had to build a special camera to see dark matter because he couldn't use a mass pointer.
[15:54] #knownspace> NickE: (Though they'd need to be in really cold space)
[15:54] #knownspace> AlexA: Will Bey's story be continued. "Home" could be interesting considering it's history ;)
[15:54] #knownspace> SolBelter: At Larry - I'll have to check dogbrain - in earliest KS stories; Cordwainer used a ratbrain at least once
[15:54] #knownspace> NickE: i.e not in teh Goldilocks zone ofa star
[15:54] #knownspace> dmac44: If you can protect yourself from junk coming at you at the spped of light then I wouldn't think the Outsiders would find a little heat difficult to deal with.
[15:55] #knownspace> NickE: no of course not - they use soem kind of fusion source to provide teh light in their own ships and are able to deal with human ships in close proximity
[15:56] #knownspace> NickE: so, getting metals, not an issue I'd say
[15:57] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Can you say anything about "Anvil"? What is connection, if any, to "Hammer"?
[15:57] #knownspace> EML: Just wondering ... how did we get into Outsiders today?
[15:57] #knownspace> NickE: As Larry said, they are very alien, so their motivations would be similarly obscure
[15:57] #knownspace> NickE: Heh, not sure, but why not :-)
[15:57] #knownspace> SeanS: someone asked about whether they were many or few
[15:58] #knownspace> AlexA: EML: I just finished "Juggler" and was a bit confused so asked about them :)
[15:58] #knownspace> Larry: Anvil: no connection to Lucifer's Hammer. And we've changed the name: "Samael's Forge". Starts in present time.
[15:58] #knownspace> EML: Alexa: opinions differ :-)
[15:59] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Thanks
[15:59] #knownspace> AlexA: EML: What was that an answer to - my qu about Bey?
[16:00] #knownspace> EML: Alexa: sorry, I fell behind. No near-term Bey plans, either.
[16:00] #knownspace> AlexA: .g Samael
[16:00] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA: http://www.samael.info/
[16:01] #knownspace> AlexA: .wiki Samael
[16:02] #knownspace> AlexA: .w Samael
[16:02] #knownspace> Outsider: Couldn't get any definitions for Samael.
[16:02] #knownspace> NickE: Larry, did you have a rough timeline for Bowl? Think that you may have mentioned it before, but I don't recall
[16:03] #knownspace> AlexA: Outsider: At least you didn't ask for a billion Stars :)
[16:03] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[16:03] #knownspace> SolBelter: ...and let me catch up - the name of 5th Worlds book is?
[16:04] #knownspace> Larry: I have no plans for Beowulf Shaeffer. Sometimes they just pop up.
[16:04] #knownspace> EML: Sol: #5 will be (current working title, anyway) FATE OF WORLDS
[16:05] #knownspace> SolBelter: thx EML - ut still a working title. Ok to quote that if we say 'working title'?
[16:05] #knownspace> SeanS: you can use this link to find a list of commands for the outsider bot. http://inamidst.com/phenny/
[16:05] #knownspace> EML: I'm okay with mentioning the working title. How about you, Larry?
[16:06] #knownspace> SolBelter: "Larry andEML discarded 'Pentology of Worlds' as book 5 title" :)
[16:06] #knownspace> Larry: I don't flinch from naming a working title. I think this one fits the book and the series.
[16:06] #knownspace> SolBelter: thank you both!
[16:07] #knownspace> EML: da nada
[16:07] #knownspace> SolBelter: the issue was proper courtesy to authors
[16:07] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: Thanks
[16:07] #knownspace> SeanS: np
[16:08] #knownspace> AlexA: .wik Samael
[16:08] #knownspace> Outsider: "Samael (Hebrew: סמאל) (also Sammael, perhaps 'Venom of God') is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is accuser, seducer and destroyer, and has been regarded as both good and evil." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael
[16:08] #knownspace> SolBelter: Sounds like Loik, Coyote, and Trickster are in Samael's family tree
[16:09] #knownspace> NickE: didn't that angel figure in Weaveworld by Clive Barker (at least in part?)
[16:09] #knownspace> SolBelter: Loki^
[16:09] #knownspace> NickE: (Was it Weaveworld, Carpet World oh blimey I've gone blank ;-)
[16:09] #knownspace> EML: Sol: Pentagram of Worlds sounds better ;-)
[16:10] #knownspace> Larry: Last issue of the comic "Ludifer" had the main character as Samael at one point.
[16:10] #knownspace> SolBelter: book six - Exorcist of Worlds
[16:11] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[16:11] #knownspace> Larry: "Pentagram of Worlds"--ah hell, we'll consider it.
[16:11] #knownspace> dmac44: lol
[16:11] #knownspace> EML: with Nessus as the, ahem, star?
[16:12] #knownspace> NickE:
[16:12] #knownspace> Larry: "Exorcist of worlds" doesn't work.
[16:12] #knownspace> SolBelter: I love my Michael Gilbert 'Fleet of Worlds' painting, and to see the Fleet revived after decades is great~!
[16:12] #knownspace> AlexA: So Samael = Angel of Death. Fitting
[16:13] #knownspace> NickE: Sol is having troubel staying on today
[16:13] #knownspace> EML: and when Puppeteers get moving *really* fast, perhaps the Pentathalon of Worlds.
[16:13] #knownspace> AlexA: The BBC TV "Horizon" science programme recently covered asteroids
[16:13] #knownspace> NickE: hehe
[16:14] #knownspace> NickE: Actually not a bad ep (the strand has been variable in recent years)
[16:14] #knownspace> NickE: Did you see the latest Deep Impact pics? V interesting shaped cometary nucleus
[16:15] #knownspace> AlexA: Apparently small asteroids are more destructive than previously thought - bad as they can't be detected until days out :(
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[16:15] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah, like a peanut
[16:15] #knownspace> NickE: wb Sol
[16:15] #knownspace> NickE: funky
[16:15] #knownspace> NickE: would guess it would be a good candidate to split
[16:15] #knownspace> dmac44: yeak, like 2 comets that hit and stuck together.
[16:15] #knownspace> NickE: or that :-)
[16:15] #knownspace> EML: my next solo deals with (among other things) NEOs.
[16:16] #knownspace> NickE: oho
[16:16] #knownspace> EML: and, perhaps, oh-oh.
[16:16] #knownspace> dmac44: eml: in one of your current universes or a new one?
[16:16] #knownspace> NickE: ah ha
[16:16] #knownspace> NickE: :-)
[16:16] #knownspace> EML: Doug: ENERGIZED is a standalone.
[16:17] #knownspace> SeanS: i need to go to lexington and pick up the intersteller net books. no decent book store here. hope i remembered the name right. ;)
[16:17] #knownspace> SolBelter:
[16:18] #knownspace> SolBelter: at EML - why 2 of yours never paperbacked?
[16:18] #knownspace> EML: SEan: INterstellarNet books are hard to find in brick-and-mortar stores. Best bet: order from the publisher, who has a twofer deal. See http://www.foxacre.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item=author.html&C..., bottom of the page.
[16:18] #knownspace> SolBelter: or at least not InPrint as pbs...
[16:19] #knownspace> SolBelter: [not counting InterstellNet ones]
[16:19] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Didn't you visit JPL recently? Research for "Samael"?
[16:19] #knownspace> EML: Sol: wishing the postman speedily on his rounds :-)
[16:20] #knownspace> SolBelter: hand deliveries by secretary, then Amazon for OP hardcovers
[16:20] #knownspace> EML: Sol "why 2 of yours never paperbacked?" which two? Or are you asking why only TPB?
[16:21] #knownspace> EML: IIRC, all my solos are available in PB or TPB.
[16:21] #knownspace> SeanS: EML, will throw that post to the gf... maybe an extra gift for christmas.
[16:22] #knownspace> AlexA: Did any of you watch "The Walking Dead"? I thought it was brilliant
[16:22] #knownspace> Larry: AlexA: no. Went to Google for Samael.
[16:22] #knownspace> EML: merry Xmas, Sean.
[16:22] #knownspace> SolBelter: at EML - 'Creative Destruction' and 'Moonstruck' http://www.amazon.com/Edward-M.-Lerner/e/B001IGSZLQ/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_...
[16:22] #knownspace> SeanS: we can hope anyway
[16:23] #knownspace> AlexA: (on AMC in US, FX in
[16:23] #knownspace> AlexA: Uk
[16:23] #knownspace> Larry: I'm off. Fare ye well all.
[16:24] #knownspace> SolBelter: you too
[16:24] #knownspace> NickE: nice to see Larry
[16:24] #knownspace> NickE: as it were
[16:24] #knownspace> EML: Sol: Creative Destruction is available in TPB, see: http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Destruction-Edward-M-Lerner/dp/0809557487...
[16:24] #knownspace> SolBelter: I stand corrected - Moonstruck was pbacked,
[16:25] #knownspace> SolBelter: ...and Creative Dest was TPB'ed
[16:25] #knownspace> SolBelter: 'My mind is going, Dave...I can feel it'
[16:25] #knownspace> EML: Moonstruck is mostly out of print (tho I'm trying to get another edition out there). Email me if you mighht want to buy one privately.
[16:26] #knownspace> SolBelter: k -thx
[16:26] #knownspace> EML: I'm kind of surprised no one's asked or commented about Betrayer. Too soon?
[16:27] #knownspace> SeanS: that is a birthday gift here that i will receive on the 27th.
[16:28] #knownspace> SeanS: so next chat, I will be all about betrayer chat.
[16:28] #knownspace> SolBelter: only 1/3rd thru - but I'd said to myself - 'they have to explain why Louis doesnt remember Bey, and what Louis' experiences on Wunderland were.'
[16:29] #knownspace> SolBelter: both answered :)
[16:29] #knownspace> SolBelter: i say no more
[16:29] #knownspace> SeanS: please no spoilers. ;)
[16:29] #knownspace> SolBelter: and didnt review *how* they answered those points
[16:30] #knownspace> SeanS: and i thank you
[16:31] #knownspace> EML: are y'all following the Ringworld 40th anniversary blog series at tor.com?
[16:31] #knownspace> dmac44: some :)
[16:31] #knownspace> EML: Those of you not writing it, that is?
[16:31] #knownspace> SeanS: i was asked to blog something
[16:32] #knownspace> SolBelter: So u dont want to know about the chapter where all their characters ever meet at a party? JOKE [stilol scarred by Heinlein Number of the Beast]
[16:32] #knownspace> SolBelter: I'm fascinated by all the different takes on KSpace at Tor
[16:33] #knownspace> SeanS: guess i should check it out.
[16:34] #knownspace> EML: I'd enjoy seeing the series expand to other KS stories.
[16:34] #knownspace> SolBelter: me too!
[16:35] #knownspace> SeanS: ed, i would love to see another smoke ring story but larry said no. work on that ;)
[16:35] #knownspace> NickE: indeed
[16:35] #knownspace> SeanS: not known space but what the hell
[16:35] #knownspace> EML: Sean: one more idea for the too-long queue.
[16:35] #knownspace> dmac44: EML: do you think Tor would have any interest in that?
[16:36] #knownspace> EML: Doug: interest in what? extending the blog series?
[16:36] #knownspace> dmac44: yes
[16:36] #knownspace> EML: I can't speak for them, but I'd guess, yes.
[16:37] #knownspace> SeanS: ringworld is great but i think my favorite knownspace stories are the slower than light ones.
[16:37] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: What would be your favorite story then?
[16:39] #knownspace> SeanS: protector ranks high. a gift from earth and world of ptavvs. bunch of short stories. the scene in WoP where pluto burns is incredible.
[16:39] #knownspace> dmac44: a gift from earth was my first Niven book.
[16:39] ronn has joined #knownspace
[16:40] #knownspace> SeanS: hi ronn
[16:40] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Ronn
[16:40] #knownspace> SolBelter: hi ronn
[16:40] #knownspace> ronn: Hi, all!
[16:40] #knownspace> NickE: brb (need beer to raise a glass to Frank for yesterday :-)
[16:40] #knownspace> SeanS: ronn, you missed Larry... he was getting ready for a trip to france
[16:40] #knownspace> SolBelter: checking Amazon re EML pbs, Moonstruck is OP, but 3 dealers offer 'new' condition...
[16:42] #knownspace> SeanS: ronn, your an astronomer right?
[16:43] #knownspace> SolBelter: ronn might prefer 'astrophysicist' :)) [I work for some in Second Life - MICA group]
[16:44] #knownspace> ronn: FWIW, the instructions at still say "There is an official larryniven.org irc chat server located at irc.larryniven.org . . . " rather than "irc.larryniven.org" . . .
[16:44] #knownspace> SolBelter: but now they look at data, not optical inputs in realtime, for the most part
[16:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: any preference, ronn?
[16:45] #knownspace> ronn: I meant, “FWIW, the instructions at still say "There is an official larryniven.org irc chat server located at irc.larryniven.org . . . " rather than "irc.larryniven.net" . . . ”
[16:46] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah, we had to change registrars and the old registrar wouldnt give up .org without money moving their way. I will mention it to mark
[16:46] #knownspace> SeanS: i was just looking for a recommendation
[16:46] #knownspace> EML: someone was not master of his domain?
[16:46] #knownspace> SeanS: they wanted too much money
[16:47] #knownspace> ronn: A preference as to what to be called? As opposed to "as long as you don't call me late for dinner"? :P
[16:47] #knownspace> AlexA: Back
[16:48] #knownspace> ronn: Yeah I remember the reason for the change, but I still find old links in the address book memory . . . like today.
[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: i have a loaner 9.25 inch schmidt cassegrain scope with an equatorial mount. the controller is fried. the mount is a Losmandy G-9. would i have to use another controller exactly like it or will others work?
[16:49] #knownspace> AlexA: .org is now German
[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: had to go down to the garage and look ;)
[16:50] #knownspace> ronn: Thought someone might wanna know about the old link.
[16:50] #knownspace> SolBelter: thx ronn
[16:50] #knownspace> SeanS: Mark is slowly and steadily going through and updating all the links... takes time and is a volunteer effort as you know
[16:51] #knownspace> AlexA: Is CrazyEddy a bot? He's always here but doesn't chat
[16:51] #knownspace> SeanS: no.. he is a guy in australia and i have only talked to him about 5 times
[16:52] #knownspace> SolBelter: we don't talk about it, but Eddy's ... Crazy.
[16:52] #knownspace> EML: but not my alter ego.
[16:52] #knownspace> SolBelter: joke, no disrespect toEddy
[16:52] #knownspace> SeanS: the only bots are Outsider and knownspaceARM. the ARM bot is the log bot
[16:52] #knownspace> AlexA: Ah right
[16:53] #knownspace> ronn: As to what title to use, astronomer is as good as anything, and is more familiar to most.
[16:53] #knownspace> AlexA: Is Outsider 's LNL biography lookup working - I can't remember the syntax?
[16:54] #knownspace> SeanS: http://inamidst.com/phenny/ list of outsider commands
[16:55] #knownspace> EML: I'm gonna wander off momentarily. Stuff needing to get finished ...
[16:55] #knownspace> SeanS: okay, ed. going to stay logged on?
[16:55] #knownspace> dmac44: Bye Ed.
[16:56] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: thought you or Mark had added bio lookup function
[16:56] #knownspace> SeanS: nope... guess i could look into it.
[16:56] #knownspace> AlexA: .bio ringworld
[16:56] #knownspace> ronn: If the question about the fried controller was supposed to be directed to me, I have no idea if there is a suitable substitute for the controller or if an exact match is required.
[16:56] #knownspace> SeanS: okay ronn.. thanks
[16:57] #knownspace> SeanS: bio lookup might be a feature of the website
[16:57] #knownspace> dmac44: Ed, before you go, Lensman has done a top notch job as editor for the Tor posts.
[16:57] #knownspace> SolBelter: i agree with dmac!
[16:58] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: Odd, I'm sure it was discussed, maybe my memory cheats!
[16:58] #knownspace> EML: Doug, Sol -- I agree. Lensman is doing a most commendable job.
[16:58] #knownspace> EML: okay ... off i go. till next month.
[16:58] #knownspace> SeanS: i will check with Neal who does my bot programming. you can add commands to the bot
[16:58] #knownspace> SeanS: later Ed
[16:58] #knownspace> AlexA: Bye Ed
[16:58] #knownspace> ronn: bye, Ed
[16:59] #knownspace> SolBelter: working with Lensman was i imagine a mini-collaboration and a good one We each listened to each other's reasons for changes and made them. Satisfying!
[16:59] #knownspace> AlexA: Anyone got a link for Tor RW stuff?
[16:59] #knownspace> dmac44: got to tor.com and search on "ringworld 40th"
[17:00] #knownspace> AlexA: .g ringworld 40th site:tor.com
[17:00] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2010/10/ringworld-40th-anniversary-introduction
[17:00] #knownspace> AlexA: :D
[17:00] #knownspace> SeanS: there ya go... from the speaking whatever of outsider
[17:01] #knownspace> SeanS: who sold the location of the ringworld to the puppeteers
[17:01] #knownspace> dmac44: supposively the outsiders
[17:01] #knownspace> SolBelter: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2010/10/ringworld-40th-anniversary-on-torcom has all the blogs
[17:02] #knownspace> SeanS: i bet i know most of the authors. ;)
[17:02] #knownspace> SolBelter: no bet :)
[17:02] #knownspace> SeanS: hehe
[17:03] #knownspace> NickE: some really good posts there
[17:03] #knownspace> SeanS: i will check it out
[17:05] #knownspace> NickE: and yeah some familiar names posting :-)
[17:05] #knownspace> SolBelter: ok all, off to real-life [RL] Have a good weekend!
[17:06] #knownspace> SeanS: good luck mining the asteroids.
[17:06] #knownspace> NickE: by Sol
[17:06] #knownspace> SolBelter: Alexaa - Nice demo of bio command
[17:07] #knownspace> SolBelter: that too Sean [mining EVE online asteroids]
[17:07] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[17:09] #knownspace> dmac44: I've got stuff to catch up on too. See you all next month.
[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: later dmac
[17:10] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: That response from Outsider was from the .g google search command
[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: i guess for that controller question, i need to find a good astronomy irc channel.
[17:11] #knownspace> SeanS: alexa, i know ;)
[17:11] #knownspace> SeanS: bio
[17:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Oops, that was meant to be @ Solbelter
[17:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Autosuggest messed up :(
[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: no worries. ;)
[17:14] #knownspace> AlexA: So none if you watched "The Walking Dead"? Shame
[17:14] #knownspace> SeanS: i think i saw a commercial for it. when was it on?
[17:16] #knownspace> SeanS: hmm, chatted that whole thing from an iphone.
[17:16] #knownspace> SeanS: i have so many typos when i use those things
[17:17] #knownspace> ronn: Re the controller: I suppose you have tried the web site for the telescope and/or the mount?
[17:17] #knownspace> SeanS: yah... 200 bucks for a new board
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: 400 bucks for the whole controller
[17:18] #knownspace> ronn: And . . . you are looking for something cheaper.
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: the controller is very basic.
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: well, kinda thinking a goto
[17:19] #knownspace> SeanS: which would be more expensive most likely
[17:19] #knownspace> SeanS: dont know much about them which is why i asked an astronomer who may or may not know
[17:20] #knownspace> NickE: gonna sme
[17:20] #knownspace> NickE: opps
[17:21] #knownspace> ronn: Technically that's not so much an astronomy question as one about electronics . . .
[17:21] AlexA has joined #knownspace
[17:21] #knownspace> SeanS: true.. but i would figure an astronomer might have one out in the yard as well for fun
[17:21] #knownspace> AlexA: My battery died :(
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: i commented about the iphone thing. here
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: hmm, chatted that whole thing from an iphone.
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: i have so many typos when i use those things
[17:22] #knownspace> ronn: I don't suppose you know anyone who could troubleshoot the board for you and find out if there is something that can be fixed .
[17:23] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: Walking Dead was on Hallowe'en night in US & last night in UK
[17:23] #knownspace> SeanS: good idea but no
[17:23] #knownspace> ronn: No, I don't have that kind of budget.
[17:24] #knownspace> NickE: gonna sneak in a favour request: from tomorrow, could some of you nominate The Signal podcast in the categories Best Parduced and Movies and Films over at www.podcastawards.com you only need to nominate us once(in fact multiple noms count as cheating!) and just in those 2 categories. We're hoping to get our second podcasting award (and exposure for Firefly fandom) this year. Thanks
[17:24] #knownspace> SeanS: me either really.. like i said. this is a loaner but i may have it for years. the owner bought a 16 inch dobsonian and this was just collecting dust in his garage
[17:25] #knownspace> NickE: No, didn't see The WAlking Dead - was hat on terrestrial TV in the UK?
[17:27] #knownspace> AlexA: FX in UK - which is on Sky, but not Virgin apparently
[17:27] #knownspace> SeanS: i was still recovering from my halloween party on saturday. in fact most of the people here were probably still recovering until really late sunday
[17:28] #knownspace> NickE: ah, don't have any subscription TV
[17:28] #knownspace> AlexA: I guess a terrestrial broadcaster may show it later
[17:28] #knownspace> AlexA: Or the DVD or torrents
[17:29] #knownspace> NickE: don't torrent, but is it good?
[17:33] #knownspace> AlexA: I loved it & reviews are very possitive. I read first few TPBs if the comic first though
[17:34] #knownspace> NickE: ah
[17:34] #knownspace> AlexA: Pilot is very cinematic - it is directed by Darrabont (sp)
[17:34] #knownspace> NickE: Will keep and eye out
[17:40] #knownspace> AlexA: The first sticks close to comic with a few additions. Next ep is more original from the trailer
[17:41] #knownspace> SeanS: i never read the comic
[17:43] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: I don't usually read comics, only read these because TV series was coming
[17:47] #knownspace> SeanS: I understand... i am just overloaded with media right now and really dont see any end in sight.
[17:50] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: I know the feeling: my pvr is half full & I have loads of unwatched DVDs
[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah, also figure that i am a computer guy with an 8 meg connection and a low ethical standard with regard to media. ;)
[17:54] #knownspace> ronn: Okay . . . no one can blame *me* this time for starting a flame war over copyright . . . :D
[17:55] #knownspace> SeanS: lensman is doing something else
[17:56] #knownspace> SeanS: whenever someone offers something, he is the one that goes nuts.
[17:58] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: Did you get round to watching "Star Cops"?
[17:58] #knownspace> SeanS: the thing with a tv show is exactly like Nick said. it will show up on hulu or something at some point
[17:59] #knownspace> SeanS: i pulled 3 eps of star cops and could not get into it
[18:00] #knownspace> AlexA: Fair enough. It's not perfect, but best hard SF show Ive seen IMHO
[18:00] #knownspace> SeanS: i may not of given it enough of a chance... will try again in a couple of years. keep reminding me
[18:03] #knownspace> AlexA: It is 80s tv done on a BBC budget, but the scripts shine through
[18:04] #knownspace> AlexA: Ok guys I think I'll go and consume some media
[18:04] #knownspace> SeanS: i am good with 80s bbc... i might not of been it the right mindset to watch it if you know what i mean. i have only tried once
[18:05] #knownspace> SeanS: charge your phone.
[18:05] #knownspace> AlexA: Glad to have made it thus time - great to have Larry in & Eds always good value
[18:05] #knownspace> SeanS: thats why i maintain the irc server
[18:05] #knownspace> AlexA: iPod Touch actually!
[18:06] #knownspace> SeanS: i cant type on those worth a shit either
[18:07] #knownspace> AlexA: Well its much better than my LG Cookie touchscreen phone - that needs a stylus & is awful in comparison :(
[18:07] #knownspace> AlexA: See you later!
[18:07] #knownspace> SeanS: i dont do cell phones so lack of experience is the problem for me
[18:08] #knownspace> SeanS: later
[18:08] #knownspace> AlexA: Cheers
[19:09] #knownspace> Akiraa: hi
[19:11] #knownspace> Akiraa: so is Star Cops any good?
[19:45] #knownspace> NickE: nite
[19:50] Dan has joined #knownspace
[19:52] #knownspace> Dan: I suppose I missed everything. Couldn't be helped- We had to take the trash to the county landfill & then go shopping. :)
[20:19] #knownspace> Dan: I ordered RAM for the 2 Dell laptops today. When it arrives I'll have both of them maxed out. The C610 is still updating the Ubuntu install- After 4 or 5 days, the update process is now at roughly 60%. Who knew it was gonna take this long? LOL!
[20:21] #knownspace> Dan: I've been thinking about using the SUSE CD to make the computer in the living room dual-boot Win XP/SUSE Linux. But I'm going to wait and see how much I like Ubuntu on the laptop before I commit.
[20:21] #knownspace> Akiraa: Dan, you are doing TSP optimizations, right?
[20:23] #knownspace> Akiraa: linux is always a headache, you sort of have to live with it for a few months before it breaks in
[20:23] #knownspace> Dan: I haven't the foggiest. I did the install, then the first thing that popped up was Update Manager. I clicked on Update All, and it's been downloading & installing the latest versions of the stuff it installed ever since.
[20:24] #knownspace> Akiraa: you shoulg get Mint and not Ubuntu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint
[20:24] #knownspace> Akiraa: ubuntu has no native support for mp3, JVM or Flash or video card drivers etc...
[20:25] #knownspace> Dan: I've never use any sort of Linux before, but Sean kept after me to try it and see why it was so dramatically superior to every other OS on the planet.
[20:25] #knownspace> Akiraa: it's not, it's just free and with some tweaking it's OK for office apps & browsing
[20:26] #knownspace> Dan: Yet Sean also continually complains about stuff that isn't available for Linux that I can just click on and use in Win XP. :)
[20:28] #knownspace> Dan: I looked up what Linux would function best on a Dell C610 laptop that's a decade or more old and Ubuntu was the top of that list.
[20:29] #knownspace> Akiraa: it would work fine on any hardware
[20:29] #knownspace> Akiraa: having to reformat the main partition is not as pressing an issue
[20:29] #knownspace> Akiraa: i.e. no significant performance degradation over time as in windows
[20:29] #knownspace> Dan: I was basically just trying to avoid having the thing turn into a doorstop on me. I have a newer Dell C810 and a brand new ASUS netbook as well.
[20:30] #knownspace> Akiraa: you can install ubuntu from wubi
[20:30] #knownspace> Dan: Ubuntu set itself up as a dual-boot with the Win 2000 already on the thing.
[20:30] #knownspace> Akiraa: it's a windows app that installs linux in a file on a NTFS partition
[20:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: and to uninstall linux, just boot up windows and select "uninstall" from control panel
[20:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/windows-installer
[20:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: easiest way to install and uninstall ubuntu
[20:32] #knownspace> Dan: Not a problem. I just wanted to see what the fuss was about with a free download rather than buying yet another Win XP full install CD off of eBay.
[20:32] #knownspace> Akiraa: but I'd recommend getting Mint
[20:33] #knownspace> Akiraa: you can also try to install in a vmware VM
[20:34] #knownspace> Akiraa: you can give the ubuntu VM some 500MB of RAM and it'll work fine
[20:34] #knownspace> Dan: The ASUS is now my primary travel 'puter, and the 2 Dell laptops will be re-purposed to some job or other here in the house. I also have several desktop 'puters for various jobs here in the house as well.
[20:37] #knownspace> Dan: I ordered 2 of the 512 RAM strips for the C610 that'll be running Ubuntu, and another 256 for the C810. That'll max both of them out.
[20:39] #knownspace> Dan: Odd how the older laptop can use twice as much RAM as the newer one. I wonder why that is?
[20:40] #knownspace> Dan: I'll still have to replace the hard drives in both Dells to make them really useful. They both have 20 Gb hard drives, while the ASUS netbook came with a 180 Gb hard drive.
[20:40] #knownspace> Akiraa: computer stores stick it to their customers bigtime
[20:41] #knownspace> Akiraa: I've seen 5 year old systems on sale
[20:42] #knownspace> Dan: I got both of the Dells used. The C810 was free from work, the C610 I got from a mail order catalog for a couple of hundred $$.
[20:44] #knownspace> Dan: 3 of the desktop 'puters in the house were given to me. My main workhorse desktop I had built at a local shop, but I've upgraded it myself since then.
[20:46] #knownspace> Dan: I can do hardware, LOL! It's just software that gives me headaches.
[20:48] #knownspace> Dan: I've got a dead IBM Thinkpad laptop I keep meaning to box up and send to Sean so he can make a pictureframe out of it, or somehthing. :)
[20:51] #knownspace> Dan: Just bought a new Cannon scanner/printer at WalMart today to hook up into the household LAN so that my wife can scann a few acres of photographs she has laying around, as well as her family geneology paperwork. We've already got a great HP printer that'll serve us for years yet as a general workhorse.
[21:22] #knownspace> SeanS: hi dan
[21:23] #knownspace> SeanS: been on phone with julie for 2 hours.
[21:27] #knownspace> Akiraa: Movieplot terrorist scenario: an evil corporation builds a giant solar shade, 6 months of sunless winter triggers a new ice age.
[21:28] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[21:28] #knownspace> SeanS: sounds like scifi channel bs
[21:30] #knownspace> Dan: Sounds a little like a plot point from an Arthur C. Clarke novel where the aliens put a polarizing sunshade in orbit to convince the humans of their power & tech abilities.
[21:30] #knownspace> Akiraa: the scenario would be, the evil corporation wins a large contract to build a small shade to combat global warming
[21:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: but they build it 10 times bigger :)
[21:32] #knownspace> SeanS: well.. my opinion on global warming
[21:32] #knownspace> Dan: Same as mine? Bring it on!
[21:34] #knownspace> SeanS: man made... bull shit... if there was man made global warming it would of happened in the 40's and 50's when you couldnt see towns due to smog
[21:34] #knownspace> SeanS: now, everthing is clean...
[21:35] #knownspace> Akiraa: massive capital diverted into this green monster
[21:36] #knownspace> SeanS: if man did it, why does every other rocky body in the solar system heat the same as earth... maybe a large ball of fusiion in the middle of the solar system?
[21:36] #knownspace> SeanS: and the amount of global heating is a whopping .1C
[21:37] #knownspace> Akiraa: but remember the polar bears
[21:37] #knownspace> Akiraa: disregard that they survived several ice ages and warmings before humans came along
[21:37] #knownspace> Dan: I'm all for clean air and reducing man-made polution, but from what I've read the entire solar system is undergoing a hot spell.
[21:37] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah... 1 dead out of a herd of 30.... oops... now more than 300
[21:38] #knownspace> SeanS: obiviiously, i scoff at man made global warming
[21:40] #knownspace> SeanS: if i met al gore face to face, i would smack the lliving shit out of him
[21:41] #knownspace> SeanS: he just bought a house on the water..... but i thought he said that the water would rise to the point that his own new house would be under. talk about a hypocrit
[21:43] #knownspace> Dan: He also had a huge home that wastes loads of power, and uses a big jet plane to fly around to his global warming lectures all over the world.
[21:43] #knownspace> SeanS: true
[21:44] #knownspace> Dan: His carbon footprint is larger than the footprint of the county I live in, and a couple of the nearby counties as well.
[21:45] #knownspace> SeanS: most likely
[21:45] #knownspace> SeanS: so everybody should go back to horse and buggy days to 'save the planet' except him
[21:46] #knownspace> Dan: In other news, Certain-Teed/Saint Gobain have started manufacturing roofing shingles that are solar panels. Score 1 point for the company I work for!
[21:47] #knownspace> SeanS: one volcano puts out more stuff than we ever have and i need to cut back
[21:47] #knownspace> SeanS: thaats cool
[21:48] #knownspace> Dan: Once the price goes down to something reasonable, I'll be re-roofing my house.
[21:48] #knownspace> Dan: I'll get an employee discount, too.
[21:48] #knownspace> SeanS: i have no problem with stuff like that
[21:49] #knownspace> Dan: 20% off retail, or better.
[21:49] #knownspace> SeanS: shingle hard to do on a flat roof
[21:50] #knownspace> Dan: Used to be 35% off, but I don't know what cutbacks have been put in place since the housing market tanked.
[21:52] #knownspace> SeanS: lets see what happens in the next couple months... ultra liberal friend of mine made the comment today that he didnt understand why they elected republicans this time.... i did not fight
[21:55] #knownspace> Dan: News Flash: Changing politicians will make no difference whatsoever! Film at 11!
[21:58] #knownspace> SeanS: i think the people spoke for the most part and they better do better.
[21:58] #knownspace> Dan: Sorry, I'm a little cynical.
[21:58] #knownspace> SeanS: so am i
[21:59] #knownspace> SeanS: i wish you lived around the corner instead of 6 hours away... i would take the scope out.
[22:00] #knownspace> Dan: I can't see that exchanging one branch of the Amateur Mafia for another is gonna change a damn thing. The cost of everything is still going to go up, the value of everything is still going to go down, taxes are going to get higher, and jobs are still going to get shipped out of the country to protect Big Business from losing their unfair share of their profit margins.
[22:01] #knownspace> SeanS: the fair tax would fix most of that but it will never be passed
[22:02] #knownspace> Dan: I agree, a flat sales tax will never happen a long as the government is allowed t pocket most of the collected tax monies.
[22:03] #knownspace> SeanS: not the gov't... politicians who get money for putting in loopholes
[22:04] #knownspace> Dan: Pass a law forcing all politicians to be paid no more than minimum wage, with mandatory life-at-hard-labor prison sentences for any politico who accepts outside funding for any reason.
[22:05] #knownspace> SeanS: good luck
[22:05] #knownspace> SeanS: i agree... but good luck
[22:05] #knownspace> SeanS: same chance as the fair tax... nil
[22:05] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, I'm not stupid enough to think that's even possible. But I'd loveto see it hapen.
[22:06] #knownspace> Dan: I'm frickin freezing here!
[22:06] #knownspace> SeanS: really? i am sure it is colder here
[22:07] #knownspace> Dan: I'm sure that you're right. You're 600 miles further North of us.
[22:07] #knownspace> SeanS: i want 30 degrees of global warming in the winter... maybe 10 degrees of global cooling in the summer and a nice global breeze
[22:08] #knownspace> Dan: And cheap beer!
[22:08] #knownspace> SeanS: with ya there
[22:10] #knownspace> SeanS: i would call except lyn would probablly want to drunk talk to my drunk butt and i am thinking about crashing.
[22:11] #knownspace> SeanS: i think i will.
[22:11] #knownspace> Dan: She's not drunk yet. Only on her 3rd glass of wine.
[22:11] #knownspace> Dan: I hope you edit this shit out of the chat logs!
[22:12] #knownspace> Dan: :)
[22:12] #knownspace> SeanS: i can
[22:12] #knownspace> SeanS: usually i just send 12am to 12 am
[22:13] #knownspace> Dan: OK, got the new phone from the living room. It has better batteries than the old one.
[22:13] #knownspace> SeanS: tis linux... all text all the time
[22:13] #knownspace> SeanS: easy to edit
[22:14] #knownspace> SeanS: lensman asked me to remove his email addy from the last chat. dont know why
[22:14] #knownspace> Dan: Chop everything from 6PM tonight and I think we'll be safe. LOL!
[22:15] #knownspace> SeanS: i was about to type something rude and stopped myself
[22:16] #knownspace> Dan: I'd rather think that you & I & Akiraa can express our opinions without the need to self-edit for posterity.
[22:16] #knownspace> SeanS: copy and paste and cut works quite well in linux
[22:17] #knownspace> Dan: Ok, OK, I've downloaded & installed Ubuntu already! Next week when it finished updating itself I may even get a chance to use it. LOL!
[22:17] #knownspace> SeanS: well, you know what soob and i think of each other
[22:18] #knownspace> Dan: Dunno what Sooby thinks of you, but I am aware of what you think of him. "Killfiled, forever..."
[22:18] #knownspace> SeanS: pretty much
[22:19] #knownspace> Dan: If you want to call, Lyn is probably more sober than am I at the moment, LOL!
[22:20] #knownspace> SeanS: i think i am going to go to bed. been drinking beer since about 3:30
[22:20] #knownspace> Dan: OK, sounds like a plan!
[22:20] #knownspace> SeanS: dont want to inflict myself and my giant dog wants company
[22:20] #knownspace> Dan: I've got a scanner to un-box and figure out how & where to hook up.
[22:21] #knownspace> Dan: That's my plan for part of tomorrow.
[22:21] #knownspace> SeanS: cool... later dan
[22:22] #knownspace> Dan: Got to finish the dog pen and unload the doghouse igloo we bought today, too.
[22:22] #knownspace> SeanS: gonna put a bunch on the play list
[22:22] #knownspace> Dan: Goodnight, Sean!
[22:22] #knownspace> SeanS: the sat dies for updates around 2
[22:25] #knownspace> Dan: I'm gonna log out and find something to read. Goodnight!